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01-03-2015, 06:14 AM - 2 Likes   #331
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Anyway for formula 1 you have automated transmission because while it may hurt the virility of drivers... Well it seems it help you to win the race.
It is quite true that computers and automatic transmissions deliver a nearly perfectly smooth torque curve throughout acceleration. For this reason 70% of Corvettes are sold with an automatic - and, testosterone aside, the higher the performance rating of the Corvette model, the higher the percentage of automatics.

AFAIK though, Formula 1 gear selection is still manually controlled but the man-to-machine linkage is electronic rather than mechanical and the interface is paddles on the steering column.

Does it matter whether I shoot in manual mode on a fixed-ISO medium, an aperture ring on the lens and a dial on the top plate or with two wheels and a fixed ISO set with a button press? It's still my intellectual decision.

IMHO the OVF/EVF debate is between professionals who want tools to automate their work and/or improve their productivity (increase the keeper rate) and (some label for) others who enjoy the actual interaction with the tool itself - learning the characteristics, observing the scene and conditions, understanding the limitations of what the eye sees through the lens and viewfinder and then making an educated guess what the settings should be.

That's called experience.

Many find analog interfaces more satisfying than some software engineer's embedded math rushed through clock cycles calculating what a device decides should be there.

You can't declare 'Better' and 'Best' until there is universal agreement on 'Good'. I simply don't agree an EVF is good, so therefore it cannot be better.


Last edited by monochrome; 01-03-2015 at 06:25 AM.
01-03-2015, 06:19 AM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
If so, what about showing a different depth of field than the one intended and eventually captured, which problem (common to sportsfinder, rangefinder and SLR OVF) is solved by EVF? Same with dynamic range, white balance and so on?
In general, it seems that the goal of EVFs is to be as close to a good pentaprism OVF as possible, albeit with a few add ons. Some of the things you mention, like white balance issues, aren't any more fixable when you have an EVF, than if you don't. Sure, you could see if the white balance is trending a little yellow, perhaps, but on the tiny screen, it will be difficult to tell for sure. The only answer, whether you are shooting with an EVF or an OVF is to shoot RAW and fix in post (a pretty quick fix in my opinion) or, to carry a gray card with you (also an easy fix, but not one that relies on the viewfinder). The only thing that I can see that is really assisted with an EVF versus an OVF is manual focusing. Not a big deal to me, since I seldom use it, but if someone does manual focus a lot, it could improve their abilities quite a bit with the focus aids a lot of companies enable in the EVFs.
01-03-2015, 06:20 AM   #333
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This dispute about OVF vs EVF remind me of something. Many times I would like to take a picture without putting the camera to my eyes, or looking at the display.

And I thing that I would love to have some glasses, like the Google glass, to see in the same time the scene with one eye, and the image from the camera with the other eye. Probably would be a tiresome exercise for my mind and eyes, but also, an invaluable tool for action and instant shooting, and for video.
01-03-2015, 06:32 AM   #334
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
This dispute about OVF vs EVF remind me of something. Many times I would like to take a picture without putting the camera to my eyes, or looking at the display.

And I thing that I would love to have some glasses, like the Google glass, to see in the same time the scene with one eye, and the image from the camera with the other eye. Probably would be a tiresome exercise for my mind and eyes, but also, an invaluable tool for action and instant shooting, and for video.
I would hate that, but any camera that is capable of live view should technically be able to do that, whether or not it has a mirror and OVF.

01-03-2015, 06:57 AM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
This dispute about OVF vs EVF remind me of something. Many times I would like to take a picture without putting the camera to my eyes, or looking at the display.

And I thing that I would love to have some glasses, like the Google glass, to see in the same time the scene with one eye, and the image from the camera with the other eye. Probably would be a tiresome exercise for my mind and eyes, but also, an invaluable tool for action and instant shooting, and for video.
I've read in a book that the author suggested readers to practice shooting with one eye to the viewfinder and the other open, looking at the action... I've tried, but it's quite difficult & tiring...

As for the EVF-OVF thing... just give me bigger and I can live with either one.
Will probably buy an lcd viewfinder soon (the silly rubber loupe thinghies) because I've tried one once, and boy, once you try "bigger" then there's no substitute for it, be it E or O...
01-03-2015, 09:14 AM   #336
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OVF is not power dependent + i don't see any interest shooting something my eyes don't see by themselves.
I rather see interest in looking through my nice super-teles without any misleading screen or powerbleeding device.
Glass : like it or not.
Full stop / period.
01-03-2015, 10:06 AM   #337
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
This dispute about OVF vs EVF remind me of something.
Like most of this part of the forums, it reminds me of this:
01-07-2015, 03:13 PM   #338
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Hi all,
This is an interesting debate. Learning alot here on this site.

Don't know if the link has been posted below, but I found it when I was considering a Sony A7 ii. I eventually ended up buying a k3 as the Sony is currently priced at around $1600.
It details why he switched from Nikon optical setup to a Sony mirrorless setup.



10 Reasons Why a Professional Photographer Left Nikon:

Cheers
Loyah

01-07-2015, 04:42 PM   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
There is an issue to even figure the depth of field between f/1.4 and f/2-2.8 with an OVF. At these apertures, the viewfinder shows a depth of field that is bigger than the actual one in your picture. And obtaining an adequate depth of field at these apertures (in the sense of getting what one wants) is definitely problematic as long as your intent is not to blur everything.
You can't really figure exactly deph of field neither on EVF without zooming and if possible focus peaking... And having very good eyes sight. On the opposite you can change the OVF to one that show the difference. You still need good eyes sight and might mess up with exposure sensor.

Anyway that not very important. What is important to understand is that EVF of OVF this is the same thing and this has mainly the same limitation.

Nobody care of the white balance => fix in post prod or whatever but when taking photos, you take photos not doing post prod.
Nobody care of color rendering etc for the same reason.
The deph of field you are not going to really see it without spending lot of time zooming etc anyway at best. focussing is really linked to that.

Exposure? That could be an argument. Still 99% of shots I can just use the camera exposure, set -0.3EV and post processing give all I need. While OVF do not really say to me the exposure of the final picture and EVF will simply not really show it and histogram will be based on JPEG, not raw. For the other 1% it can get covered with a braketed exposure shoot. Problem fixed.

In the end, there little real difference in term of actual features. I expect a good photographer to know anyway the apperture he want, where he should focus manually or with AF, the right exposure to use and so on. It not while shooting that you can really fix things except on a landscape with lot of time and then tripod+backscreen might not be that bad idea.

Will EVF replace DSLR? Likely because ultimately they'll become cheaper than OVF and provide also smaller bodies/lenses

Looking at what we have today it is only really true for m4/3 and APSC if you don't want a tele past 70-100mm. FF mirroless at least in Sony form cases seems to be dependant of slow appertures to get average sized optics or of an adapter to get truelly small FF lenses like FA77 or FA43 or even DFA100 macro.

That kind of funny Pentax is better at small lenses without relying on a mirroless design.
01-07-2015, 06:52 PM - 1 Like   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by loyah1 Quote
10 Reasons Why a Professional Photographer Left Nikon:
1 reason why a professional photographer left Nikon for Sony: money.
But what does it have to do with some yet unannounced Pentax flagship?
01-07-2015, 07:08 PM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by loyah1 Quote
Hi all,
This is an interesting debate. Learning alot here on this site.

Don't know if the link has been posted below, but I found it when I was considering a Sony A7 ii. I eventually ended up buying a k3 as the Sony is currently priced at around $1600.
It details why he switched from Nikon optical setup to a Sony mirrorless setup.



10 Reasons Why a Professional Photographer Left Nikon:
http://youtu.be/7wM_5nROeaw

Cheers
Loyah
Interesting video. I believe the A7 is a fine camera with great features. However, I'm married to Pentax and I have no intention to file a divorce if they keep the K-mount.
01-07-2015, 07:10 PM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
1 reason why a professional photographer left Nikon for Sony: money.
But what does it have to do with some yet unannounced Pentax flagship?
Understood, but there was a debate about OVF vs EVF in the previous posts. And the video details some pros about EVF or a mirrorless system.
01-08-2015, 01:42 AM   #343
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
1 reason why a professional photographer left Nikon for Sony: money.
But what does it have to do with some yet unannounced Pentax flagship?
Easy, if even pros are starting to switch from their trusted brands to Sony milc because of the money, then what are poor amateurs and consumers supposed to do? For the difference in price between the D810 and A7r you can get a decent lens. And the prices going to drop further and faster. ((SR2) First rumor about a super cheap FF E-mount camera. Costs 799 Euro with lens? | sonyalpharumors)

Does a Pentax FF DSLR flagship stand any chance of succes?
01-08-2015, 02:56 AM   #344
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If a pro is sponsored by a certain brand, should we drop our cameras and go buy into that brand - at a significant cost, and with no benefit in doing so? If a pro requires an expensive medium format solution for his assignments, should we sell our kidneys in order to afford similar equipment? Should we carry multiple expensive cameras and lenses to wherever a pro could have to shoot?

That SR2 (i.e. as unreliable as they get) rumor surely is able to kill cameras like the D810... yep, Nikon must be worried to death, and Pentax probably canceled the 645z already
01-08-2015, 03:17 AM   #345
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One thing is clear for me. Pentax (and others) must look for another sensor manufacturer, because, as I can see, Sony tries to kill the competition using every means they have. If not, Pentax, Nikon and everyone that use Sony sensors will fall behind Sony technology with more than a year, and the price of their products will be much higher than Sony's products, at least for a period of time, as long as Sony will be able to keep the prices of products under production expenses.
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