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01-08-2015, 03:42 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If a pro is sponsored by a certain brand, should we drop our cameras and go buy into that brand - at a significant cost, and with no benefit in doing so? If a pro requires an expensive medium format solution for his assignments, should we sell our kidneys in order to afford similar equipment? Should we carry multiple expensive cameras and lenses to wherever a pro could have to shoot?
That's not what I was saying at all, and you know that. The pro in the above case didn't dictate what to use. And he didn't go for equipment with astronomic pricetags. It's exactly the other way around. The man concluded that the Sony equipment better serviced his needs for a much lower pricetag then his trusted Nikon gear. And he's not the only one.

We all know we're not supposed to look at what the pro's are using. And I agree fully. But fact remains that the vast majority of amateurs do look at what the pro's use. I don't think the inertia of the market and its consumers is slow, stupid or rich enough to just keep buying the old technology for insane prices.

Lets compare to cars. What is smarter to market at this moment in time? A very economic "green" car with the latest features with good value for money. Or a big fat expensive hummer-type luxury vehicle?


QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That SR2 (i.e. as unreliable as they get) rumor surely is able to kill cameras like the D810... yep, Nikon must be worried to death, and Pentax probably canceled the 645z already
True, but there's a patent to back up the rumor though. And do you realise the A7 can already be had for 1070 euros new on Ebay now? So the rumored price isn't all that unrealistic, imho. Cheap FF is already happening even if the rumor is false.

01-08-2015, 04:13 AM   #347
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My point is, a pro choices might be irrelevant to us. He's driven by the need to make money, and less to enjoy photography.
In this case, one of the reason for going Sony was that Sony equipment was "more disposable" than Nikon's, easier to write off in the event of a theft/robbery/meeting angry people. Do we expect the same conditions?
Keep in mind that some people are enthusiastic about a brand because they got certain advantages.

Indeed, that video is a good PR stunt for Sony. I'm a Pentaxian, though, I don't care about marketing The D810 is an amazing camera at a good price though, I'm not sure what do you mean by "old technology for insane prices".

Neither of those extremes are any good, probably, and a very bad analogy to our discussion. By such standards, the "smart" choice would be a Dacia Logan (with a tiny, "eco" 0.9l engine).

The A7 is a retired model; perhaps it didn't sell as well as Sony hoped and there are a bunch of them sitting in warehouses?
01-08-2015, 04:45 AM - 1 Like   #348
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I find it quite amusing that the fact that Sony's product have prices plummeting like the price of K-01 and that is seen as positive for the product.
I am quite sure Sony will have to start selling FF cameras at $800 and less very soon if they want to stay alive.
The thing is: noboy cares.

If Canon can collect $1700 for an APSC camera and another maker can only get $800 for an item with a way more expensive key ingredient it is screaming out loud that the latter product is utter crap from the buyers perspective.

Well, it's a Sony, so no surprises there.



Then there is the little Thing about ink Jet Printers and now Sony cameras:
To get the large hardware close to free does not mean you have a real choice or are getting them cheap with regards to the interchangeable parts. The Sony lens arsenal is inferior and their prices are ridiculous. Go wait until Sony offers a F2.8 standard zoom to make use of the larger sensor and see if that thing is anywhere close to the $300 Price of a Tamron F2.8 standard zoom. Ever bought some HP ink for your printer?


People want standard zooms on their cameras and certainly do not want to adapt manual lenses. That is what forum nerds do.
So when do we see a Sony FF MILC new with F2.8 standard zoom for less than a grand?
01-08-2015, 05:34 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by HavelockV Quote
I find it quite amusing that the fact that Sony's product have prices plummeting like the price of K-01 and that is seen as positive for the product.
I am quite sure Sony will have to start selling FF cameras at $800 and less very soon if they want to stay alive.
The thing is: noboy cares.
So what does the plummeting price of the K-3 indicate to you then?

It is positive, price is reduced due to the new model already arriving. Their sales are very good. Actually, the new mirrorless line is what's saving Sony's behind. Reuters:
QuoteQuote:
Fitch revises Sony from negative to stable.
Reuters Japan:
QuoteQuote:
Sony revised upwards the camera sales plan for 2014. While Canon and Nikon digital camera sales are falling Sony reported a growth. While for Sony there is a decrease in numbers of sold camera the earnings are increasing. Mainly because Sony is selling much less non profitable fixed lens budget compacts but itís gaining shares in the profitable interchangeable camera market.


01-08-2015, 05:45 AM - 1 Like   #350
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I rather resent the idea that because I own a Pentax camera I must be an angry old man hiding under a blanket. Putting down pretty well any new technology or new entrant to the camera biz is a tad illogical, surely,

I don't have much time for the YouTubers and am sometimes afraid to visit the site for fear I will see a photograph of Zack Arias. However, Lanier made some extremely good points. Essentially, he was saying that if one company can do various things and get the products in at an attractive price, they why can't the traditional camera companies? Why can one company manage to put all the features into its more upmarket cameras whereas the traditional companies put some features in only for consumers and others in only for professionals? Why can some companies deliver technical capabilities which appear to be beyond the mighty Canonikon? The implication is that the traditional imaging companies have formed a cartel which is addicted to salami-slicing features to game buyers across different products, preserves market share at the cost of technological progress and which has a pretty contemptuous attitude to the customer. The dragging of feet over wifi and apps is a good example of the last point.

I think Lanier is right to ask such questions, even though that doesn't mean that choosing Sony (or Samsung or Fuji or Olympus) is the only or remotely correct choice for every camera-buyer or every use. Very clearly, this is simply miles from the case especially when you factor in glass, which Lanier did not address. But this is a useful exercise in asking why I am buying what and why it does or does not offer certain things. At least Sony + Samsung + Fuji = a serious challenge to the cosy little arrangements that used to be enjoyed by the cartel, to the detriment of the customer (including the behemothic size of so many Canonikon products). You don't have to like any of them to see that.

Last edited by mecrox; 01-08-2015 at 10:41 AM.
01-08-2015, 06:38 AM - 8 Likes   #351
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Why is this board called PentaxForums and this particular forum Pentax News and Rumors? The only place I haven't heard about how good A7 and Sony stuff in general is, is when I open my fridge, and I'm sure in the following months Sony will have that covered too.


On a more serious note, I have nothing against Sony and their business, but I don't want to read about it on every topic here. If Sony does miracles for you, great! You can discuss it in 'Non-Pentax Cameras' and I can choose not read it. The way it is now, every time a thread is hijacked , I (or anyone else annoyed by this) just have to


a) leave the thread
or
b) be blunt and confrontational


The topic here is potential release of new Pentax flagship and its impact on purchasing decisions.
Sorry for the tone but one craze all over the board is enough (FF, and that one is at least related to Pentax).
01-08-2015, 07:07 AM - 4 Likes   #352
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We are on a Pentax Forum on which Pentax is doomed several times a day, and the definition of a Pentaxian is "angry old man hiding under a blanket". And everything Pentax makes is no good, because it's not a Sony.

The next Pentax flagship will still be a Pentax product. DSLR, K-mount, same as usual. And that's a good thing.

Last edited by Kunzite; 01-08-2015 at 07:17 AM.
01-08-2015, 07:17 AM - 5 Likes   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by cxdoo Quote
Why is this board called PentaxForums and this particular forum Pentax News and Rumors? The only place I haven't heard about how good A7 and Sony stuff in general is, is when I open my fridge, and I'm sure in the following months Sony will have that covered too.


On a more serious note, I have nothing against Sony and their business, but I don't want to read about it on every topic here. If Sony does miracles for you, great! You can discuss it in 'Non-Pentax Cameras' and I can choose not read it. The way it is now, every time a thread is hijacked , I (or anyone else annoyed by this) just have to


a) leave the thread
or
b) be blunt and confrontational


The topic here is potential release of new Pentax flagship and its impact on purchasing decisions.
Sorry for the tone but one craze all over the board is enough (FF, and that one is at least related to Pentax).

I'm with this totally. Sometimes I wonder how long we have to support that Sony propaganda? Or we have to look for other forums, and leave this one?

01-08-2015, 07:22 AM - 1 Like   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I'm with this totally. Sometimes I wonder how long we have to support that Sony propaganda? Or we have to look for other forums, and leave this one?
+1, really.
01-08-2015, 07:26 AM   #355
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^^^ There's no better forum, for sure .


But it's interesting anyway, as the Sony attitude is like jumping here and there, from topic to topic and subject to subject, doing everything and nothing, sometimes better sometimes worse, but always unaccountable. Entirely in contraposition to Pentax, which - as far as I can judge - is for me kind of a well-considered continuity (even in spite of changing the owners recently).
01-08-2015, 08:21 AM - 4 Likes   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
+1, really.
+1 too... I'am really fed up to see handless threads advocating for wonderfull Sony gear... Go to a Sony forum please to discuss that !

If I wanted to think Sony all day long, I would not for sure read Pentax Forums !
01-08-2015, 09:07 AM   #357
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I think the A7 is usually mentioned as a benchmark for what Pentax needs to beat! Seems quite a few of us would prefer an A7-type Pentax K-mount camera over a D810-type or 5DIII-type DSLR. Of course with Pentax finishing touches, which would improve the things that are Sony's weakness right now
01-08-2015, 09:25 AM - 2 Likes   #358
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I think the A7 is usually mentioned as a benchmark for what Pentax needs to beat! Seems quite a few of us would prefer an A7-type Pentax K-mount camera over a D810-type or 5DIII-type DSLR. Of course with Pentax finishing touches, which would improve the things that are Sony's weakness right now

Heh, I didn't like reading all those posts the first time so I'll not go and search, but we heard everything about Sony raking in, zillion new lenses coming, 19.99USD MSRP FF mirrorless coming, all lenses ever thought of working on A7, EVF brighter than supernova explosion, and so on and so on. With the undertone of 'if Pentax doesn't go that way, well, ...(ominous silence)'


I get your point. Some (a lot?) of people would like to get all that in K mount. Well maybe they do, maybe they don't but I refuse to be held hostage on every news/rumors thread to their frustration with RP.
It's not a medical condition, it's just a camera. If you don't like it and/or like something else better, well, bloody change it. Or get both. Or whatever.
01-08-2015, 10:28 AM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I think the A7 is usually mentioned as a benchmark for what Pentax needs to beat! Seems quite a few of us would prefer an A7-type Pentax K-mount camera over a D810-type or 5DIII-type DSLR. Of course with Pentax finishing touches, which would improve the things that are Sony's weakness right now
But there will NEVER be an A7 equivalent in K-mount. That why this is irrelevant.

A7 by definition is short registration distance. If you keep K-mount, and start for the A7 II body at more than 600g and add some deph to it, you already have K3 size/weight anyway. Nothing revolutionnary. Appart for manual focussing, EVF has still more drawbacks than benefits. There no insentive to go this way.

Continuing asking for A7 Pentax version in every thread will not change the fact. Want A7? Stop winining buy one, go MF or changes lenses at the same time.

And please... stop asking for an impossible thing and speaking of Sony all the time in a Pentax forum...

Last edited by Nicolas06; 01-08-2015 at 10:34 AM.
01-08-2015, 11:02 AM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I think the A7 is usually mentioned as a benchmark for what Pentax needs to beat! Seems quite a few of us would prefer an A7-type Pentax K-mount camera over a D810-type or 5DIII-type DSLR. Of course with Pentax finishing touches, which would improve the things that are Sony's weakness right now
+1. IMHO the A7 is the cam (series) that Pentax should have created but again, they are still watching their competitors passing them and running away with customers
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