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**clackers** · 01-06-2015, 11:50 PM

The Fuji stuff looks nice, but it's expensive and in this day and age keeps throwing up 16Mp sensors.

Full Frame Fetishists need not apply either. Apparently the Fuji mount and lenses rule that out.

philbaum · 01-07-2015, 01:34 AM

I"m not that concerned about resolution, the K5 had plenty and K3 even a bit more.

But what got my attention in 2014 was the game changing attributes of the A7S. In terms of dynamic range and assuming a minimum DR of 9, this DXO chart shows that while the D800E is at 9.23EV and 4575 "measured ISO", the A7S is at 9.05EV and 20,935 measured ISO. So thats like 2 stops more ISO than the Nikon. Sony A7S versus Nikon D800E versus Nikon D4 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

All that talk about DOF control in FF cameras left me uninterested, but a low light camera like the A7S and the totally quiet electronic shutter has my interest in FF for the first time. See this review by Steve Huff: The Sony A7II Real World Camera Review. My Camera of the Year 2014. | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS (according to him, the camera of the year was A7 II, but he talks about both cameras and their uses)

gazonk · 01-07-2015, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

All that talk about DOF control in FF cameras left me uninterested, but a low light camera like the A7S and the totally quiet electronic shutter has my interest in FF for the first time.

Hmm, the A7S is cool but frankly 12mp is putting me off, I like the ability to crop. My daughter is so used to the freedom to crop that the 24 mp of her NEX-7 gives her (she uses almost exclusively primes, so she often crops) that she thinks that the16mp of my K-5 is limiting

I'm pretty happy with the silent shutter of my K-5, it's less noisy than most mirrorless cameras. I'm really looking forward to hear how the Pentax FF performs noise-wise!

**clackers** · 01-07-2015, 02:34 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by philbaum

But what got my attention in 2014 was the game changing attributes of the A7S.

I suppose each to their own, Phil.

Only 12Mp, has a low pass filter, no phase detection AF, no inbuilt flash, and about as heavy in the bag as a K-S1 or Canon 100D.

Like I suspect most of our members, video is unimportant to me but if you want its 4k, it can't do it and you're up for an external recorder.

Last edited by clackers; 01-07-2015 at 02:40 AM.

Flugelbinder · 01-07-2015, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

...frankly 12mp is putting me off...

If I had the chance - read money - the camera I would still get today, would probably be the D3s. If money were no objection, maybe the D4s... For my type of photography 12 MP is enough, and the high ISO images from those cameras are simply sublime; the D3s is completely clean at 6400.

derekkite · 01-07-2015, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by Flugelbinder

If I had the chance - read money - the camera I would still get today, would probably be the D3s. If money were no objection, maybe the D4s... For my type of photography 12 MP is enough, and the high ISO images from those cameras are simply sublime; the D3s is completely clean at 6400.

But for a few more dollars you could buy another sublime at 6400 iso body with high resolution in the 645z.

Low resolution is a way to route around a flaw in digital sensors. Or a way to optimize a sensor for video. Or both.

Flugelbinder · 01-07-2015, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by derekkite

But for a few more dollars you could buy another sublime at 6400 iso body with high resolution in the 645z....

I'm a bit embarrassed for not checking the price on the Z (always thought MF would be on the stratospheric price tag of Hasselblads), but I've just checked B&H, and although it's still 10.000 cad, I guess it's a good value for such a fantastic camera... Yeah, if money were no objection...

**WPRESTO** · 01-07-2015, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Flugelbinder

I'm a bit embarrassed for not checking the price on the Z (always thought MF would be on the stratospheric price tag of Hasselblads), but I've just checked B&H, and although it's still 10.000 cad, I guess it's a good value for such a fantastic camera... Yeah, if money were no objection...

BUT: Lens selection for Nikon versus 645, new or used.

thibs · 01-07-2015, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by derekkite

Low resolution is a way to route around a flaw in digital sensors. Or a way to optimize a sensor for video. Or both.

That could be said for a bunch of things begining with frame per second.
But then nobody moans because of that, strange. Same with sensor size and on and on...

Flugelbinder · 01-07-2015, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by WPRESTO

BUT: Lens selection for Nikon versus 645, new or used.

I was going to mention that...
I have to stop thinking about the Nikon now. The more I think about it, the more my stomach turns...

philbaum · 01-07-2015, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by gazonk

Hmm, the A7S is cool but frankly 12mp is putting me off, I like the ability to crop. My daughter is so used to the freedom to crop that the 24 mp of her NEX-7 gives her (she uses almost exclusively primes, so she often crops) that she thinks that the16mp of my K-5 is limiting

I'm pretty happy with the silent shutter of my K-5, it's less noisy than most mirrorless cameras. I'm really looking forward to hear how the Pentax FF performs noise-wise!

Good points all. I've seen photos from the A7s in person and they come out fine, but for sure, one couldn't do much cropping. If you looked at the article Steve Huff wrote, he actually recommended the A7 II over the A7S. He povided comparisons of the video from both and the 5-axis IBIS actually was very successful in preventing that jittery look to the video of a handheld cam. Also the price difference is substantial.

I hope they do, but i'm doubting there will be a Pentax FF this year.

gazonk · 01-08-2015, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by philbaum

If you looked at the article Steve Huff wrote, he actually recommended the A7 II over the A7S.

Indeed, but the A7 II presumably has a louder shutter than K-7/5/3!

About the FF: the fact that they're showing the K-50 successor at CES has imho increased the odds that they'll show a full frame at CP+!

Clavius · 01-08-2015, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

About the FF: the fact that they're showing the K-50 successor at CES has imho increased the odds that they'll show a full frame at CP+!

How do you guess that? To me this says: They've been working on a whole lot of other stuff instread of any FF model.

gazonk · 01-08-2015, 01:01 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Clavius

How do you guess that?

Because they've usually only shown compacts (if anything at all) at CES and left the serious stuff for CP+.

Aksel · 01-08-2015, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Because they've usually only shown compacts (if anything at all) at CES and left the serious stuff for CP+.

Pentax and FF - You must have a firm belief ... maybe in next year or maybe in next ten years? Who knows?

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01-06-2015, 11:50 PM	#181
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	The Fuji stuff looks nice, but it's expensive and in this day and age keeps throwing up 16Mp sensors. Full Frame Fetishists need not apply either. Apparently the Fuji mount and lenses rule that out.

01-07-2015, 01:34 AM	#182
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	I"m not that concerned about resolution, the K5 had plenty and K3 even a bit more. But what got my attention in 2014 was the game changing attributes of the A7S. In terms of dynamic range and assuming a minimum DR of 9, this DXO chart shows that while the D800E is at 9.23EV and 4575 "measured ISO", the A7S is at 9.05EV and 20,935 measured ISO. So thats like 2 stops more ISO than the Nikon. Sony A7S versus Nikon D800E versus Nikon D4 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark All that talk about DOF control in FF cameras left me uninterested, but a low light camera like the A7S and the totally quiet electronic shutter has my interest in FF for the first time. See this review by Steve Huff: The Sony A7II Real World Camera Review. My Camera of the Year 2014. \| STEVE HUFF PHOTOS (according to him, the camera of the year was A7 II, but he talks about both cameras and their uses)

01-07-2015, 02:28 AM	#183
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by philbaum All that talk about DOF control in FF cameras left me uninterested, but a low light camera like the A7S and the totally quiet electronic shutter has my interest in FF for the first time. Hmm, the A7S is cool but frankly 12mp is putting me off, I like the ability to crop. My daughter is so used to the freedom to crop that the 24 mp of her NEX-7 gives her (she uses almost exclusively primes, so she often crops) that she thinks that the16mp of my K-5 is limiting I'm pretty happy with the silent shutter of my K-5, it's less noisy than most mirrorless cameras. I'm really looking forward to hear how the Pentax FF performs noise-wise!

01-07-2015, 02:34 AM - 1 Like	#184
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by philbaum But what got my attention in 2014 was the game changing attributes of the A7S. I suppose each to their own, Phil. Only 12Mp, has a low pass filter, no phase detection AF, no inbuilt flash, and about as heavy in the bag as a K-S1 or Canon 100D. Like I suspect most of our members, video is unimportant to me but if you want its 4k, it can't do it and you're up for an external recorder. Last edited by clackers; 01-07-2015 at 02:40 AM.

01-07-2015, 08:07 AM	#185
Flugelbinder Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Toronto - missing the ocean Posts: 466	Originally posted by gazonk ...frankly 12mp is putting me off... If I had the chance - read money - the camera I would still get today, would probably be the D3s. If money were no objection, maybe the D4s... For my type of photography 12 MP is enough, and the high ISO images from those cameras are simply sublime; the D3s is completely clean at 6400.

01-07-2015, 08:14 AM	#186
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by Flugelbinder If I had the chance - read money - the camera I would still get today, would probably be the D3s. If money were no objection, maybe the D4s... For my type of photography 12 MP is enough, and the high ISO images from those cameras are simply sublime; the D3s is completely clean at 6400. But for a few more dollars you could buy another sublime at 6400 iso body with high resolution in the 645z. Low resolution is a way to route around a flaw in digital sensors. Or a way to optimize a sensor for video. Or both.

01-07-2015, 08:23 AM	#187
Flugelbinder Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Toronto - missing the ocean Posts: 466	Originally posted by derekkite But for a few more dollars you could buy another sublime at 6400 iso body with high resolution in the 645z.... I'm a bit embarrassed for not checking the price on the Z (always thought MF would be on the stratospheric price tag of Hasselblads), but I've just checked B&H, and although it's still 10.000 cad, I guess it's a good value for such a fantastic camera... Yeah, if money were no objection...

01-07-2015, 08:31 AM	#188
WPRESTO Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Massachusetts Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 59,142	Originally posted by Flugelbinder I'm a bit embarrassed for not checking the price on the Z (always thought MF would be on the stratospheric price tag of Hasselblads), but I've just checked B&H, and although it's still 10.000 cad, I guess it's a good value for such a fantastic camera... Yeah, if money were no objection... BUT: Lens selection for Nikon versus 645, new or used.

01-07-2015, 08:46 AM	#189
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by derekkite Low resolution is a way to route around a flaw in digital sensors. Or a way to optimize a sensor for video. Or both. That could be said for a bunch of things begining with frame per second. But then nobody moans because of that, strange. Same with sensor size and on and on...

01-07-2015, 08:54 AM	#190
Flugelbinder Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Toronto - missing the ocean Posts: 466	Originally posted by WPRESTO BUT: Lens selection for Nikon versus 645, new or used. I was going to mention that... I have to stop thinking about the Nikon now. The more I think about it, the more my stomach turns...

01-07-2015, 12:39 PM	#191
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by gazonk Hmm, the A7S is cool but frankly 12mp is putting me off, I like the ability to crop. My daughter is so used to the freedom to crop that the 24 mp of her NEX-7 gives her (she uses almost exclusively primes, so she often crops) that she thinks that the16mp of my K-5 is limiting I'm pretty happy with the silent shutter of my K-5, it's less noisy than most mirrorless cameras. I'm really looking forward to hear how the Pentax FF performs noise-wise! Good points all. I've seen photos from the A7s in person and they come out fine, but for sure, one couldn't do much cropping. If you looked at the article Steve Huff wrote, he actually recommended the A7 II over the A7S. He povided comparisons of the video from both and the 5-axis IBIS actually was very successful in preventing that jittery look to the video of a handheld cam. Also the price difference is substantial. I hope they do, but i'm doubting there will be a Pentax FF this year.

01-08-2015, 12:34 AM	#192
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by philbaum If you looked at the article Steve Huff wrote, he actually recommended the A7 II over the A7S. Indeed, but the A7 II presumably has a louder shutter than K-7/5/3! About the FF: the fact that they're showing the K-50 successor at CES has imho increased the odds that they'll show a full frame at CP+!

01-08-2015, 01:00 AM	#193
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by gazonk About the FF: the fact that they're showing the K-50 successor at CES has imho increased the odds that they'll show a full frame at CP+! How do you guess that? To me this says: They've been working on a whole lot of other stuff instread of any FF model.

01-08-2015, 01:01 AM - 2 Likes	#194
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Clavius How do you guess that? Because they've usually only shown compacts (if anything at all) at CES and left the serious stuff for CP+.

01-08-2015, 01:28 AM	#195
Aksel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 224	Originally posted by gazonk Because they've usually only shown compacts (if anything at all) at CES and left the serious stuff for CP+. Pentax and FF - You must have a firm belief ... maybe in next year or maybe in next ten years? Who knows?

Ricoh Imaging Interview on DC Watch website

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