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01-09-2015, 10:22 AM   #226
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Our designers have come up with outrageously expensive lenses with specifications that no one wants. PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

01-09-2015, 11:38 AM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Our designers have come up with outrageously expensive lenses with specifications that no one wants. PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think it's that people don't want these lenses. It's just that the group who wants them is much smaller than the group who wants wide angle and "normal" lenses. Let's also ask ourselves how many more lenses does Ricoh need in their line up? They have have almost one of everything. In some cases there are two. I took a quick look at their line up of primes and I counted 15 number of unique focal lengths : 14mm (APS), 15mm (APS), 21mm (APS), 31mm (FF), 35mm (APS & FF), 40mm (APS), 43mm (FF), 50mm (APS & FF), 55mm (APS), 70mm (APS), 77mm (FF), 100mm (APS), 200mm (APS), 300mm (APS), and 560mm (APS). The gaps between the shorter focal lengths are smaller than the gaps between the longer focal lengths. If Ricoh is going to develop more lenses then I see more white space at the longer end. A 135mm lens is a good example of something missing in my view. However, rather than develop individual primes to fill the gaps Ricoh is making zooms. I guess that's fine.
01-09-2015, 11:43 AM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
Our designers have come up with outrageously expensive lenses with specifications that no one wants. PENTAX IS DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But if they make ou rageously expensive lenses they won't appeal to the pro market, and god knows the only reasons people buy cameras is because pros use them... so Pentax was doomed anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
I don't think it's that people don't want these lenses. It's just that the group who wants them is much smaller than the group who wants wide angle and "normal" lenses. Let's also ask ourselves how many more lenses does Ricoh need in their line up? They have have almost one of everything. In some cases there are two. I took a quick look at their line up of primes and I counted 15 number of unique focal lengths : 14mm (APS), 15mm (APS), 21mm (APS), 31mm (FF), 35mm (APS & FF), 40mm (APS), 43mm (FF), 50mm (APS & FF), 55mm (APS), 70mm (APS), 77mm (FF), 100mm (APS), 200mm (APS), 300mm (APS), and 560mm (APS). The gaps between the shorter focal lengths are smaller than the gaps between the longer focal lengths. If Ricoh is going to develop more lenses then I see more white space at the longer end. A 135mm lens is a good example of something missing in my view. However, rather than develop individual primes to fill the gaps Ricoh is making zooms. I guess that's fine.
And that's totally my issue. The one lens I would want right now would be a 135mm ƒ2.4 or faster, and I wouldn't be able to afford it.

But I wish they'd make one so I can look at the pictures and drool, like I do with that FA* 250-600.

I don't know why drooling makes me feel so good...

Kleenex manufacturers demand it.

Maybe Pentax can making money by leveraging the additional sales of kleenex...

Someone stop me..... please....
01-09-2015, 11:56 AM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Someone stop me..... please....
Most of us aren't close enough to 'Adam' to appreciate what we have for what it is in a truly sinless state. We have to have something after which to lust, away from which we can then choose to turn, and only then experience the sublime wonderful joy of what we have where we are - and revel in the glory of the turning, and the choosing to turn, and the denial of the Can . . . . . oh, hockey sticks, I just can't flog it that far.

if you've tried everything and found it all wanting what is the purpose of going on?

Or something.

01-09-2015, 12:16 PM   #230
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Maybe they show us this two long lenses, because if they present a 24-70mm, and a 14-28mm, it will be clear for everyone that those lenses are made for an FF camera. And they didn't confirm or deny that they will have an FF. They only say they are studying. So would be nonsense to show other lenses that those two, that nobody can say that are made especially for FF.
01-09-2015, 12:49 PM   #231
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I don't know, the 70-200 is a pretty popular FF lens, and the patent someone found from a few years ago has a big enough image circle to accommodate shake reduction on an FF. We have found clues in the past....
01-09-2015, 03:02 PM - 1 Like   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
I don't think it's that people don't want these lenses. It's just that the group who wants them is much smaller than the group who wants wide angle and "normal" lenses. Let's also ask ourselves how many more lenses does Ricoh need in their line up? They have have almost one of everything. In some cases there are two. I took a quick look at their line up of primes and I counted 15 number of unique focal lengths : 14mm (APS), 15mm (APS), 21mm (APS), 31mm (FF), 35mm (APS & FF), 40mm (APS), 43mm (FF), 50mm (APS & FF), 55mm (APS), 70mm (APS), 77mm (FF), 100mm (APS), 200mm (APS), 300mm (APS), and 560mm (APS). The gaps between the shorter focal lengths are smaller than the gaps between the longer focal lengths. If Ricoh is going to develop more lenses then I see more white space at the longer end. A 135mm lens is a good example of something missing in my view. However, rather than develop individual primes to fill the gaps Ricoh is making zooms. I guess that's fine.
In the SFL area Pentax could probably do with rectilinear wide angle of 10-12mm. I have a very large stable of lenses so I'm not really in the market for another, but a new APS body with certain changes relative to the K3 would be of interest. A FF body would have to offer considerable more than the changes I would welcome in an APS body. One tiny change I'd appreciate, although it's dreadfully retro, is a metal shutter release button threaded for traditional mechanical cable releases. I have quite a few, including one made by Pentax, all in perfect working condition.
01-09-2015, 03:58 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
My take, to repeat, Pentax has too much invested in lenses for APS-C, and too few lens offerings for FF.
I'm a bit puzzled, Wpresto - what are the twelve APS-C lenses you said previously you owned?

01-09-2015, 04:01 PM - 2 Likes   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
In the SFL area Pentax could probably do with rectilinear wide angle of 10-12mm. I have a very large stable of lenses so I'm not really in the market for another, but a new APS body with certain changes relative to the K3 would be of interest. A FF body would have to offer considerable more than the changes I would welcome in an APS body. One tiny change I'd appreciate, although it's dreadfully retro, is a metal shutter release button threaded for traditional mechanical cable releases. I have quite a few, including one made by Pentax, all in perfect working condition.
Ricoh/Pentax has a very large section of zoom lenses. If I counted right I see 13 zoom lenses of different grades. Sorted according to focal length ...

10-17mm (fisheye)
12-24mm
16-45mm
16-50mm
16-85mm
17-70mm
18-55mm
18-135mm
18-270mm
50-135mm
50-200mm
55-300mm
60-250mm

I would argue that there are too many. There are, what seem to me, a lot of overlapping focal lengths. I understand that they are trying to achieve different price/performance points with each model. Still, I would wager there must be a way to simplify this but I'm just an armchair expert here. My armchair expertise agrees with you that the line lacks a super ultra wide angle rectilinear zoom. 12mm is plenty wide for sure but Sigma went even wider with an 8-16mm. It's also pretty obvious that their telephoto end comes up shorter than others at 300mm. Rather than make an even bigger lens they decided to make a teleconverter. Now 300mm becomes 420mm. Cropping from 24 MP to 16 MP on a K-3 would bring this effective focal length up even higher to 630mm. Maybe that's good enough.

Speaking of Sigma, let's not forget that someone could build up a complete collection of primes and zooms from their product catalog as well. I count 9 zooms and 12 primes. Their zooms include ...

8-16mm
10-20mm
17-70mm
18-35mm
18-250mm
50-500mm
70-300mm
120-400mm
150-500mm

Primes ...

4.5mm (circular fisheye)
10mm (fisheye)
15mm (fisheye)
20mm
24mm
28mm
30mm
35mm
70mm
85mm
300mm
500mm

I don't mean to come across as being obtuse and mundane by listing all of these lengths but I wanted to illustrate how competitive and crowded the market is for Ricoh. Nearly every imaginable focal length is already out there. You could easily bankrupt yourself building up a kit from Sigma as you could from Ricoh. It seems to me that in order to distinguish a new lens the manufacturer can compete on size, weight, IQ, and speed. As any one of the factors "gets better" the price will always go higher. Could Ricoh come up with an alternative to the Sigma 8-16mm? Sure, but I don't think it will be any cheaper while being better.

And this doesn't even take into account smaller players in the K-mount space like Tamron and Samyang. Yikes!

So when I think of the lens market in these terms I applaud Ricoh for releasing *anything* new - even a new kit lens like their collapsible 18-50mm. They are up against some serious competition.
01-10-2015, 12:59 AM   #235
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
I did not say, but here they are:

Pentax 10-17mm ... etc
Genuinely impressed, Wpresto ... you are the Pentax equivalent of Smaug sitting on his mountain of accumulated treasure.

If it's anything, the DA70 will work on FF according to (cough) Ricehigh.
01-10-2015, 01:31 AM   #236
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Also, the 100mm macro is marked DFA, so it covers the full ff image circle. As do the DA*200&300 lenses.
01-10-2015, 01:37 AM   #237
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Oh, and the 40mm as well.
01-10-2015, 02:16 AM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Maybe they show us this two long lenses, because if they present a 24-70mm, and a 14-28mm, it will be clear for everyone that those lenses are made for an FF camera. And they didn't confirm or deny that they will have an FF. They only say they are studying. So would be nonsense to show other lenses that those two, that nobody can say that are made especially for FF.
Im guessing that this is going to happen .. Pentax already showed 2 lenses ( clearly FF and K mount ), but they dont announce them yet.. why? because they need the body, they need a BIG moment with BIG impact.. so. CP+ could be this right moment... Pentax will come out with a 100 - 400mm ( f4 or something around that ), a 70 - 200mm f2.8.. and they will announce the new FF body with a 24 -70 lens.. IMAGINE THAT.. Pentax covering all range from 24mm all the way to 400mm and also showing a FF body to use them. So, what is missing?? primes .. but we have already some good FF primes, but we need 2nd generations.. 50mm 35mm 85mm .. new HD coatings. but that could come a while after the FF is already in the market.

So IMHO, Pentax will realease 3 lenses + FF body at once .. covering ranges from 24mm to 400mm.. a full FF system ready to use ( complemented with some old FF primes meanwhile )
01-10-2015, 05:26 AM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Genuinely impressed, Wpresto ... you are the Pentax equivalent of Smaug sitting on his mountain of accumulated treasure.

If it's anything, the DA70 will work on FF according to (cough) Ricehigh.
Retired now, no expense with kids, clear picture of how much money I have and a good idea how long it must last. Went through a cancer scare that could have ended badly (statistically, I've been dead for about three years) which encouraged me to follow the dictum: "enjoy life, for we're a long time dead." So I indulge - - no, I over indulge - shamelessly, HA! Getting a new bit of equipment encourages me to use it, to look aggressively for photo ops.
01-10-2015, 05:41 AM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Genuinely impressed, Wpresto ... you are the Pentax equivalent of Smaug sitting on his mountain of accumulated treasure.
Impressive, indeed - but a far cry from a certain Jim King gentleman's collection!
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