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12-29-2014, 02:17 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji appears to be a solid #3 with no FF.
Fuji? A solid what?

12-29-2014, 02:21 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by gaddigad Quote
Assuming you're right it's good enough reason not to go ahead with the whole FF thing. Why would any FF fans care? Most of them could have by now migrated or bought a used FF body. Expensive, mechanical DSLRs dinosaurs are not that hot any more, although they could have their niche, like vinyl records do.
The FF is not the only matter that matters in the Kmount. There are many unanswered questions beside the FF. If a company thinks that K-01 or K-S1 are some answers to the K-mount issue, then they operate in some parallel reality.
The problem with Pentax is that it is so called traditional value photo geat company. But 40% of their Kmount offer is undeniable joke and unpalatable modern "twist".

If you want to pursue traditional, rugged and value for money approach, etc. then go for it all the way. Be unique in that regard. Deliver top notch cameras in the style of K-3 or modernise further K-30 and go on. Modernise all lenses for the APS-C, finally improve kit lenses, make them more compact, silent, etc. But they do not do that -- those "traditionalists" deliver you a camera with pointless LEDs and leave all existing problems unanswered.
12-29-2014, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The FF is not the only matter that matters in the Kmount. There are many unanswered questions beside the FF. If a company thinks that K-01 or K-S1 are some answers to the K-mount issue, then they operate in some parallel reality.
The problem with Pentax is that it is so called traditional value photo geat company. But 40% of their Kmount offer is undeniable joke and unpalatable modern "twist".

If you want to pursue traditional, rugged and value for money approach, etc. then go for it all the way. Be unique in that regard. Deliver top notch cameras in the style of K-3 or modernise further K-30 and go on. Modernise all lenses for the APS-C, finally improve kit lenses, make them more compact, silent, etc. But they do not do that -- those "traditionalists" deliver you a camera with pointless LEDs and leave all existing problems unanswered.
Don't hold back mate, let it all out - you'll feel better
12-29-2014, 04:22 PM - 1 Like   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If you want to pursue traditional, rugged and value for money approach, etc. then go for it all the way. Be unique in that regard.
They already are. What do you want, two more K-5 models and another K-3? Pentax is just trying to make many different products, not only for the pro, for the outdoorsman, for the hobbyist, but also for others. They want to experiment, see what sticks. Sony is doing the same thing, look at how many failed products they have. And how many problems Canon had. Or any other brand. Win some, lose some. Hit and miss. Main thing is they keep swinging. Pentax just doesn't have the budget of Sony, to make that many products. So they try to make the best out of what they have. And look at how much they squeezed out of that 16MP sensor! The K-5, K-01, K-30, K-50, K-500, K-5II, K-5IIs! And the K-5IIs beats all the other cameras with that same 16MP sensor, Nikon D7000 and the Sony equivalents as well. And look at that lineup! And it has colours! Pentax made budget DSLR, WR DSLR, mirrorless, and even AA-less, all in the span of one digital sensor generation.

But no, people behave as if all we need is Pentax to make two FF cameras - one top notch that will beat 5DIII, D800E, 1Dx, D4s (and cost less, of course!)... and one that we can actually afford. Oh, and update it every 6 months, to prove to us that Pentax is "not doomed"

12-29-2014, 04:24 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Maybe they just spend all their developmentmoney on the K-S1 and now are waiting for it to return......
I first read "developmentmonkey."

- Craig
12-29-2014, 05:15 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
You can read anything because they haven't made it clear.
That is exactly what I was trying to say.. we are reading the thoughts of each forum member's desires on the subject and not any factual statements made by Ricoh.
12-29-2014, 05:50 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The FF is not the only matter that matters in the Kmount. There are many unanswered questions beside the FF. If a company thinks that K-01 or K-S1 are some answers to the K-mount issue, then they operate in some parallel reality.
The problem with Pentax is that it is so called traditional value photo geat company. But 40% of their Kmount offer is undeniable joke and unpalatable modern "twist".

If you want to pursue traditional, rugged and value for money approach, etc. then go for it all the way. Be unique in that regard. Deliver top notch cameras in the style of K-3 or modernise further K-30 and go on. Modernise all lenses for the APS-C, finally improve kit lenses, make them more compact, silent, etc. But they do not do that -- those "traditionalists" deliver you a camera with pointless LEDs and leave all existing problems unanswered.
N.F.M. s N.F.A.
12-29-2014, 09:17 PM   #53
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First of, how many FF bodies would they sell, two models roughly equivalent to the 610 and 810? $2k and $3k on release, a bit less six months later.

I agree that they need to have one in their lineup, I suspect that they would tend towards the 810 range to complement the 645z in their professional offerings.

I don't think they would sell enough as a base for a product line. I don't think Nikon or Canon are selling enough, an the the Sony offerings at give away prices make it almost a waste of time.

I think that they would make far more money from a hot 645 with K3 equivalent speed.

Coming back to what I would buy. A full frame with the characteristics that I want would be expensive and I probably would drool a bit but pass. That kind of money could buy me other things with more return.

So what would I buy? An aps-c with a stop and a half minimum better noise performance. Two stops would be a pre order. Along with that I would get better AF, and all the new movie tech that they will develop for the 645z.

If the 100-400 is very sharp and fast focus, and f5.6 I would buy it. Or, and this would be in an instant, a 300mm f4 upgrade with equivalent optics but very fast focus.

Is also pay for a service plan, every year cla'd with a two week turn around.

I have had the strange experience with Ricoh where it seems they have a bunch of people like me in a room from time to time and ask them what they would buy, then they go make it. So I predict no FF for the masses, a serious firmware upgrade for the 645z and K3, a new aps-c in the fall. And a lens release every few months. And substantially less money in my pocket.

12-29-2014, 11:35 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I suspect that the decision to make the product it's intimately connected to the decision whether to announce their intention to produce it. In other words, the reason they've not made their intention clear is they're not 100% when and if they'll produce an FF camera, and so they're not willing to commit to it via an announcement. And so if they do decide to make the product next year, I believe they'll announce their intention shortly thereafter.

That announcement could be tied to their announcement of the two FF telephoto zooms, which will probably be released next year. It's possible they'll be announcing those lenses as early as this February. Since one of those lenses will likely be a DFA 70-200 f2.8, questions about FF will inevitably arise at that time. So I believe there's a legitimate chance the FF could be announced in a couple of months (although I wouldn't expect any such product to appear any time before the end of next year).
In the interview, Pentax admitted the declining sales of entry-level DSLRs, which would have to be compensated with high-end models. It depends on you whether it means the launch of FF or not.
12-30-2014, 02:02 AM   #55
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As expected, nothing new under the sun...
12-30-2014, 02:36 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
After yet another very much same or repetatively similar interview with Ricoh, here is what a typical Pentax user says while watching at a collection of FA limiteds on the shelf ...
I just love how the picture of Blackadder has become the thread icon in the overview.
12-30-2014, 03:45 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
That is exactly what I was trying to say.. we are reading the thoughts of each forum member's desires on the subject and not any factual statements made by Ricoh.
Aye, Ricoh have given us a shimmering pool in the dark forests of Glen Morangie on whose surface the traveller sees whatever mind desires. Some fancy they have seen what looks suspiciously like a Nikon D810 dancing on the water.

Others have peered in and seen shadowy figures talk about what it's like having no money.

New-gen sensors with substantial improvements would be very welcome to everyone and were hinted at in the interview. I would love to have one - a really cost-effective alternative to spending $$$ on FF (and likely a visit to a psychiastrist since I don't actually need FF). However, since all or most camera-makers would have access to the sensors, the industry would move forward in locksetep and that still leaves Pentax where they are now. Getting to a better place than they are now is what we want. The original Sony A7 is now on sale here for 899 with interest-free credit - the K3 or the D7100 were around 850 or so until the Christmas sales and cashbacks. The A7R is on sale for hardly more than a D610. Ouch. I think many folks would happily pay a good price for a top quality APS-C camera with a new-gen sensor, but they won't pay more than a discount price for the last generation, the K3/D7100 generation. That is as good as gone now as a full-price offer. Prices can go back up in the New Year but it's hard to see many takers at the pre-sale prices. I guess a round of new APS-C cameras from the usual suspects early in 2015 is very likely.

I wonder how much folks would pay for an APS-C camera that didn't have the all-singing MILC components like big and bold EVF, 20 fps, wifi, new-gen BSI 24 mpx + sensor, fast primes for low light and so forth, just the kind of DSLR system we have with the K3 or similar from Canonikon.

Last edited by mecrox; 12-30-2014 at 06:40 AM.
12-30-2014, 03:49 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The FF is not the only matter that matters in the Kmount. There are many unanswered questions beside the FF. If a company thinks that K-01 or K-S1 are some answers to the K-mount issue, then they operate in some parallel reality.
The problem with Pentax is that it is so called traditional value photo geat company. But 40% of their Kmount offer is undeniable joke and unpalatable modern "twist".

If you want to pursue traditional, rugged and value for money approach, etc. then go for it all the way. Be unique in that regard. Deliver top notch cameras in the style of K-3 or modernise further K-30 and go on. Modernise all lenses for the APS-C, finally improve kit lenses, make them more compact, silent, etc. But they do not do that -- those "traditionalists" deliver you a camera with pointless LEDs and leave all existing problems unanswered.
I don't think K-01 or K-S1 are viewed as "answers" by Pentax, but they certainly are possibilities to fill the niche of entry level camera -- small and inexpensive.

I think Ricoh is trying to figure out how many full frame cameras they really can sell at the price point they can make them for. It is a tough prediction to make and the best predictor, is probably sales of lower end cameras.

I don't think getting rid of the screw drive really would make that much difference with camera sales, either. I'm glad that they have kept it, even in their entry level cameras.
12-30-2014, 06:23 AM - 1 Like   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't think K-01 or K-S1 are viewed as "answers" by Pentax, but they certainly are possibilities to fill the niche of entry level camera -- small and inexpensive.

I think Ricoh is trying to figure out how many full frame cameras they really can sell at the price point they can make them for. It is a tough prediction to make and the best predictor, is probably sales of lower end cameras.

I don't think getting rid of the screw drive really would make that much difference with camera sales, either. I'm glad that they have kept it, even in their entry level cameras.
Again and agin...it is NOT the FF bodies that are the problem.

It is the tiny market and the capital expense of developing a decent FF lens array that is the issue. I suspect Ricoh really needs FF to fall much further in price so they can switch their production facilities.

The FF price point is still far too high.
12-30-2014, 06:38 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Again and agin...it is NOT the FF bodies that are the problem.

It is the tiny market and the capital expense of developing a decent FF lens array that is the issue. I suspect Ricoh really needs FF to fall much further in price so they can switch their production facilities.

The FF price point is still far too high.
Change "FF" for "APS-C mirrorless" in your post and the situation is the same (including the price point once you add in mirrorless lenses). Where does this leave things as we go into 2015 with talk of new-gen sensors and so forth?
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