[Mistral75]

Change "FF" for "APS-C mirrorless" in your post and the situation is the same (including the price point once you add in mirrorless lenses). Where does this leave things as we go into 2015 with talk of new-gen sensors and so forth?

Speaking about next-generation sensors, let me introduce the new Sony 'Pregius' sensor line with global shutter as disclosed by Toshiba Teli's presentation at Vision Show 2014





Found via Image Sensors World: Sony Next Generation Global Shutter Sensors

[Winder]

Again and agin...it is NOT the FF bodies that are the problem.

It is the tiny market and the capital expense of developing a decent FF lens array that is the issue. I suspect Ricoh really needs FF to fall much further in price so they can switch their production facilities.

The FF price point is still far too high.

I agree that Ricoh needs to do a lot of work to develop competitive FF lenses, but that's no excuse. Sony and Fuji also have a lot of work to do with lens development. They have to start somewhere, and if they aren't willing to invest in this then they need to get out of the business. The A7m2 is selling for $1,600 which is basically what the K-3 was selling for when it was first released. If anything the price of FF bodies have fallen to the point that they are putting pressure on APS-C. The Canon 7DII is selling for $1,800.00.

What production facilities would Ricoh have to change? The K-mount is already a FF mount, and volume of a FF body would be many times higher than the 645z which they had no problem producing.

[monochrome]

Again and agin...it is NOT the FF bodies that are the problem.

It is the tiny market and the capital expense of developing a decent FF lens array that is the issue. I suspect Ricoh really needs FF to fall much further in price so they can switch their production facilities.

The FF price point is still far too high.

Change "FF" for "APS-C mirrorless" in your post and the situation is the same (including the price point once you add in mirrorless lenses). Where does this leave things as we go into 2015 with talk of new-gen sensors and so forth?

Canon, Nikon and Sony have access to parent-company capital. Fuji and Olympus don't have legacy dSLR production facilities to amortize (and Oly might have some access to Sony capital). Leica is whatever Leica is. Apple and Samsung are massive disruptors.

Where does that leave Ricoh Imaging?

Can Pentax be the poor man's Leica? Can Pentax be the poor man's Hassy and let the halo shine down on everything else?

[mecrox]

Canon, Nikon and Sony have access to parent-company capital. Fuji and Olympus don't have legacy dSLR production facilities to amortize (and Oly might have some access to Sony capital). Leica is whatever Leica is. Apple and Samsung are massive disruptors.

Where does that leave Ricoh Imaging?

Can Pentax be the poor man's Leica? Can Pentax be the poor man's Hassy and let the halo shine down on everything else?

The poor man's Hassy is a very good long-term bet perhaps since with a bit more lurv and system expansion the 645 system could become the discerning photographer's better than Hassy and very desirable too. It's desirable enough already. If I had the money I would buy one tomorrow. But I fear that without access to capital to take advantage of all the amazing new tech coming on stream that halo would be shining down on empty space so far as smaller formats go.

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Last edited by mecrox; 12-30-2014 at 08:35 AM.

[RonHendriks1966]

I don't think K-01 or K-S1 are viewed as "answers" by Pentax, but they certainly are possibilities to fill the niche of entry level camera -- small and inexpensive.

Only to expensive at introduction to be even considdered for buying.

I first read "developmentmonkey."

- Craig

Maybe they should have developed a monkey instead of the K-S1.

[monochrome]

The poor man's Hassy is a very good long-term bet perhaps since with a bit more lurv and system expansion the 645 system could become the discerning photographer's better than Hassy and very desirable too. It's desirable enough already. If I had the money I would buy one tomorrow. But I fear that without access to capital to take advantage of all the amazing new tech coming on stream that halo would be shining down on empty space so far as smaller formats go.

Suppose by developing for 645 and selling at higher profit margins they could earn back the investment in

1. Hinged LCD development
2. Fast internal Wi-Fi
3. Fast, richly-featured tethering
4. Leading in-viewfinder AF display technology (focus points and Peaking)
5. Native remote flash control and leading speedlight technology
6. Fast, reliable DC or ring-motor in-lens focus motors
7. Dual-processor, dual bus technology
8. Co-designed Milbeaut or other processor tech optimized for video as well as still
9. Maybe even co-developed AMOLED EVF technology
10. Whatever else anyone could want

and transfer the tech downstream to professional- and enthusiast-grade FF and APSc cameras at amortized cost?

[Docrwm]

Suppose by developing for 645 and selling at higher profit margins they could earn back the investment in

1. Hinged LCD development
2. Fast internal Wi-Fi
3. Fast, richly-featured tethering
4. Leading in-viewfinder AF display technology (focus points and Peaking)
5. Native remote flash control and leading speedlight technology
6. Fast, reliable DC or ring-motor in-lens focus motors
7. Dual-processor, dual bus technology
8. Co-designed Milbeaut or other processor tech optimized for video as well as still
9. Maybe even co-developed AMOLED EVF technology
10. Whatever else anyone could want

and transfer the tech downstream to professional- and enthusiast-grade FF and APSc cameras at amortized cost?

That would obviously be terrific!

[ogl]

Speaking about next-generation sensors, let me introduce the new Sony 'Pregius' sensor line with global shutter as disclosed by Toshiba Teli's presentation at Vision Show 2014

It's industrial sensors

[monochrome]

That would obviously be terrific!

I doubt it could happen without a capital infusion from Ricoh - but . . . . . Ricoh does have capital. The question, really, is, "What is the true, long-term business goal?"

[JimmyDranox]

Suppose by developing for 645 and selling at higher profit margins they could earn back the investment in

1. Hinged LCD development
2. Fast internal Wi-Fi
3. Fast, richly-featured tethering
4. Leading in-viewfinder AF display technology (focus points and Peaking)
5. Native remote flash control and leading speedlight technology
6. Fast, reliable DC or ring-motor in-lens focus motors
7. Dual-processor, dual bus technology
8. Co-designed Milbeaut or other processor tech optimized for video as well as still
9. Maybe even co-developed AMOLED EVF technology
10. Whatever else anyone could want

and transfer the tech downstream to professional- and enthusiast-grade FF and APSc cameras at amortized cost?

Yes, this would have been very good. But the list is long, and I think that can be even longer. A big number of new technologies, in a relativelly short time. It was enough time? Did Ricoh have enough work force in R&D department?

I see that is a lot of skepticism about the future of Pentax, especially about a future FF, but I think that we can be more optimistic. At least, for now, I am.

I saw people here which wants Pentax to compete with Sony's, and Canon's or Nikon's best camera from the first FF they will make. I, for a change, I will be satisfied with a good one. Decent number of pixels, not more than 36M, or better, just 24M, good low light performance, good AF, decent video. And not a very high starting price, like they did with K-S1, which was lowered to 2/3 in just one month after launch.

[sherrvonne]

In morning freeze brain read googlish before intake nutrition coffee to pleasure learn terms recently familiar Pentax cameras.

[GlassJunkie]

Well, it is perhaps true nobody knows anything in particulat about their plans.

But what is the point of participating in an interview that will be equally concealing and counterproductive? Can a sensible marketing person be aware that a stream of such "interviews" does nothing good to the brand? Then again, what is the point in DC publishing it? Where is journalist's common sense there, or if there is some? Why publish something that is not a meal for human brain, or worse, not even food for cats?

Maybe DC is hinting us loudly: there is nothing to see here boys, and we are publishing it for you to see, once again. A company that follows only its own idiosyncratic quirks and issues a plastic toy like K-01 and K-S1 and then artificially pushes both into an upper medim range offer and price level -- twice their real worth -- must have lost some touch with common sense. They are fooling themselves, and making users ridiculous. So much of our quest for some common sense in this endless saga of pointless interviews then; on which basis can we expect one?

Anyway, if it is Ricoh's will to keep their mouth shut and work in total isolation form their users and users' requests, why we bother even answering such threads, trapped like mice inside a labyrinth? Toss it overboard. Google translate did not miss a beat; the jumble translated is a clear message there is nothing worthy of wasting our time there.

Aren't we being a bit harsh? The K-01 is a lovely paperweight, in lovely colours...

[Docrwm]

Aren't we being a bit harsh? The K-01 is a lovely paperweight, in lovely colours...

It's actually very useful in several roles IMHO, and I was a vocal critic of it when it came out. At $159 after selling the 40XS it was a steal of a deal. I use mine primarily for macro, astro, and other non-speed intensive photography. Oh, and the yellow puts people at ease instead of the "Pro" looking big black dSLR.

[monochrome]

Aren't we being a bit harsh? The K-01 is a lovely paperweight, in lovely colours...

My K-01 / DA40 Ltd.is actually my most-used k-mount camera. Most people who actually have one (whether bought new or as deals) actually think it's a much better camera than the initial hurricane of condemnation had intimated it would be.

But that's fine with me. I'm happy to go about with my little secret in my jacket pocket

[Jyrkira]

I saw people here which wants Pentax to compete with Sony's, and Canon's or Nikon's best camera from the first FF they will make. I, for a change, I will be satisfied with a good one. Decent number of pixels, not more than 36M, or better, just 24M, good low light performance, good AF, decent video.

I agree.

What I want is Pentax(or Ricoh, but I prefer Pentax) FF DSLR. It does not need to be the best in the market. Just well designed k-mount camera.

---------- Post added 12-30-14 at 08:39 PM ----------

Again and agin...it is NOT the FF bodies that are the problem.

It is the tiny market and the capital expense of developing a decent FF lens array that is the issue. I suspect Ricoh really needs FF to fall much further in price so they can switch their production facilities.

The FF price point is still far too high.

I disagree about the price point. I have seen many Pentaxians here in Finland got tired to wait for Pentax FF that have left Pentax and bought Nikon system. It is much cheaper just to buy a 2000-3000€ body than buy a body and lenses to another system. It has not prevented them to do it.

Market may be tiny, but it is not the body only which makes the profit. When Pentax is not having FF:

- They will not sell any lenses or accessories to non existing camera.
- They will not sell any lens, camera or accessory anymore to those who left the brand due lack of FF body.
- They will not sell any or many items to those who still use Pentax but has decided not to update until there is a FF body.
- They will sell less APS-C cameras and lenses because many hesitates to buy first DSLR from the system which does not have FF body. I have seen this.

Also those who sell their Pentax and move to other system decrease Pentax sales by increasing items in used market.