[Kunzite]

What, "throw everything away and make me a cheaper and better Canon/Nikon" is that better? That's exactly what Sony tried with the A900/A850, btw. On the other hand, there's still just one mirrorless FF system on the market right now, and Pentax could be the second (They could have been there even before Sony if they wanted, if even just to stick their pole and make a bold statement).

It isn't, far from it.
And the A900/850 wasn't better than the 5dMkII. They lacked features like video and live view, and IIRC high ISO image quality wasn't that great (plus, initially they had that nasty NR)
So... being the 3rd maker on the 3x market, while having the support of a well-established (albeit quite small) userbase, or being the 2nd maker on the 1/3rd market, starting from scratch? Competing on the market you know, with the competitors you know, or competing on a new market, with a company able and willing to throw cheapest products on the market? Which is easier?

[Winder]

The brand has to be expanding with such aggressive pricing.

Are they attracting new users at a rate faster than users move to other systems. I see a awful lot of people from this forum who are now using Fuji or Nikon. K-mount is a good entry level system that is capable of professional results. If the brand is expanding, why are 3rd party lens makers still moving away? Where is the Sigma 50mm Art for K-mount? When I see 3rd party suppliers increasing support for K-mount, then I will believe the brand is growing.

The K-3 is a very, very good camera. Its IQ is better than the $1,800 7DII. Its IQ is better than the $1,300.00 Fuji X-T1 up to 800 ISO. So why can't Ricoh sell the K-3 for the same price? Mostly its a failure of marketing. Ricoh seems to have no idea how to create brand awareness or excitement. They are good at creating doubt.

[osv]

Fuji has been focussed but Sony is all over the map...and losing money, I might add.

not true, the sony imaging division has been profitable for several quarters now.

i've posted multiple links all over pf that prove it... there is only one division of sony that's losing money right now, hand over fist, and sony is getting out of that business.

Fuji's not doing so hot either, nor Oly, but no one is doing well right now because consumer tastes are shifting.

cipa data proves that mirrorless cameras are the only segment that's expanding, despite an overall negative camera sales market.

cheaper gasoline in america has saved consumers billions of dollars, which freed up cash for xmas expenditures.

the cipa data for this xmas season will show continued mirrorless growth, and further negative dslr market growth.

[Mistral75]

(...) there's still just one mirrorless FF system on the market right now (...)

There are two, actually: Leica M and Sony FE.

[Docrwm]

There are two, actually.

Sony's Alpha 7, Leica M series, and a rumor of a 50megapixel FF from Canon.

[zmohie]

It seems there is an unwritting agreement among the Japaness camera makers that:
1- ff sector is to canon and nikon.
2-mirrorless/ ff /is to sony
3-mirror less aps/c is to fuji
4-micro four thirds to olympus and panasonic.
5-dslr aps/c to pentax.
they divided the cake. they decided not to eat themselves!!

[Uluru]

What - just copy Canon and Nikon who are having DSLR crises?

Expand into a contracting market, as Winder pointed out?

In ecology, niches are places of survival.

What is the Pentax-owned niche? There is just one: a few good lenses. And that niche is going away too.
Everything else can be catered by all other brands, as Pentax in the camera market (leave lenses aside for a moment) offers nothing other brands alone and together do not offer.

With the K-S1 marketing disaster (there is no way I can put it mildly), they have dropped off even weather sealing as their niche trademark. So what are they doing, where are they going?

There is no sign that Ricoh understands the DSLR market at all. To me it rather looks they just perform crazy stunts since 2011 around to see what will happen. In terms of solid investment, theirs is minimal and not worth mentioning. And that is painfully visible. 4 years into the ownership of the iconic brand, and they target totally wrong market with their current DSLR offer, one that is on its rapid demise. They are feeding those who are already lost to the brand, while steadily disrespecting and ignoring those who were willing to cling to it and explore further.

Of course, there is nothing to explore there in the Pentax lineup of cameras now. K-3 is easily matched with current offers of other manufacturers, and with all due respect to its competent tech, in people's eyes it is overshadowed by any FF camera Nikon, Canon or Sony offers. You cannot fight that perception. Those makers who commit to the FF will be the leading imaging companies of the future, clearly distinguished from the rest, and the picture clearly shows: today it is Nikon, Canon and Sony. Because they cater for enthusiasts, they ally with them. And thus they will stay tomorrow.

Pentax under Ricoh has missed its chance. A niche? Quite the contrary; thanks to incapable management, it has slipped from its niche, and dropped into the dog eats dog market of bottom feeders.

---

Last edited by Uluru; 01-01-2015 at 06:14 PM.

[aleonx3]

What is the Pentax-owned niche? There is just one: a few good lenses. And that niche is going away too.
Everything else can be catered by all other brands, as Pentax in the camera market (leave lenses aside for a moment) offers nothing other brands alone and together do not offer.

With the K-S1 marketing disaster (there is no way I can put it mildly), they have dropped even weather sealing off as their niche trademark. So what are they doing, where are they going?

There is no sign that Ricoh understands the DSLR market at all. To me it rather looks they just perform crazy stunts since 2011 around to see what will happen. In terms of solid investment, theirs is minimal and not worth mentioning. And that is painfully visible. 4 yeas into the ownership of the iconic brand, and they target totally wrong market with their current DSLR offer, one that is on its rapid demise. They are feeding those who are already lost to the brand, while steadily disrespecting and ignoring those who were willing to cling to it and explore further.

Of course, there is nothing to explore there in the Pentax lineup of cameras now. K-3 is easily matched with current offers of other manufacturers, and with all due respect to its competent tech, in people's eyes it is overshadowed by any FF camera Nikon, Canon or Sony offers. You cannot fight that perception. Those makers who commit to the FF will be the leading imaging companies of the future, and the picture clearly shows: today it is Nikon, Canon and Sony. Because they cater for enthusiasts. And they will stay tomorrow.

Pentax under Ricoh has missed its chance. A niche? Quite the contrary; thanks to incapable management, it has slipped from its niche and dropped into the dog eats dog market of bottom feeders.

Sounds like Ricoh mis-filed your resume.... as you know every move they make is horrible leading us to nowhere but doomed.... we (Pentax users) are clueless and we are doomed..

[monochrome]

Someone has been depressive for several weeks.

Be patient - Just as the sun rises and sets on Ayers Rock he'll cycle back sooner or later.

[RonHendriks1966]

It seems there is an unwritting agreement among the Japaness camera makers that:
1- ff sector is to canon and nikon.
2-mirrorless/ ff /is to sony
3-mirror less aps/c is to fuji
4-micro four thirds to olympus and panasonic.
5-dslr aps/c to pentax.
they divided the cake. they decided not to eat themselves!!

and Pentax got the 645 and Q segments (also knows as the to large and the to small sensor niches).

[Kunzite]

With the K-S1 marketing disaster (there is no way I can put it mildly), they have dropped even weather sealing off as their niche trademark. So what are they doing, where are they going?

It's a marketing disaster only in the eyes of the people who refuse to acknowledge it.
This place pretty much rejected any product Pentax dared to launch - even the amazing 645z (seen as an useless diversion of resources from what's "important") and the K-3 (because of some 6 letters under the back LCD). The yet unannounced FF already is - because it won't be a Sony clone, because it won't be cheaper and better than anything else, because it will be a Pentax.
We are their worst enemy, incessantly working to lower their sales and, with it, their ability to continue developing and launching new products to market. We want them DOOMED.

FTR, the K-S1 managed to reach #40 in kakaku.com DSLR ranking. Still nowhere near good enough for a true entry level (the K-3 is on #4... that's a strange situation), but it seems to gain some traction at least on its home market.

[Docrwm]

We're doomed despite the amazing success of the 645Z, WiFi tethering, finally a more complete WR line of lenses and accessories, and ......oh why bother.

[Aristophanes]

What is the Pentax-owned niche? There is just one: a few good lenses. And that niche is going away too.
Everything else can be catered by all other brands, as Pentax in the camera market (leave lenses aside for a moment) offers nothing other brands alone and together do not offer.

The SLR industry has always been a me-too, copycat industry. Modular, compact, FF, etc. they all have tried it and gone down the same paths. Frankly, the main differentiators for Pentax when I got back into the brand were AA batteries and WR.

With the K-S1 marketing disaster (there is no way I can put it mildly), they have dropped even weather sealing off as their niche trademark. So what are they doing, where are they going?

Maybe they surveyed their installed base and determined WR was simply not going to sell.

There is no sign that Ricoh understands the DSLR market at all.

And maybe Pentax knows more about their customers than you do. Maybe the non-WR models (K-x, K-r, K500) vastly outsold and had lower costs to make than did the WR models.

Those makers who commit to the FF will be the leading imaging companies of the future, and the picture clearly shows: today it is Nikon, Canon and Sony. Because they cater for enthusiasts. And they will stay tomorrow.

FF is not the determining factor. Value is. If I can get a K-3 at $800 and FF starts at $1,300 which one will sell more?

Do NOT forget that the overwhelming # of photos are shared digitally now only, so maybe the DSLR market is vastly over-specced (look at computers now where many advancements are stalled as are sales) and FF is just a cost hump with little appreciable gain when viewed on mobile OS screens which will soon be the dominant viewing platforms worldwide.

Maybe Pentax (and others) are starting to grasp that the DSLR is going to contract regardless and the smaller, more networked and integrated cameras will be the future, not the lumbering FF monsters. I owned a D700 and it was huge and unwieldy. I see that alone as a factor in stalled DSLR sales, this "big camera" scenario. Smaller DSLRs (like Nikon's most recent) and the Canon SL1 may be the trend to watch far more than the D750.

[Flugelbinder]

...K-3 is easily matched with current offers of other manufacturers...

...it is Nikon, Canon and Sony. Because they cater for enthusiasts....

At half the price.

You want a better enthusiast cater than offering the same IQ for cheaper? Maybe our definition of enthusiast isn't the same...

[filoxophy]

I try to think about what would make me upgrade from my K-5II...

Probably for me, at this moment, integrated WiFi with an associated phone app. Yes, I PP most images in Lr, but sometimes I just want to share straight from the camera, and I can't stand using my cell cam. I tried Eye-Fi and hated it--it was a total kludge.

Also I would love silent screw drive, with quick shift functionality built in to the body. Too much to ask?