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01-15-2015, 08:44 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Yes, obviously. Stupid me.

But my irony detector is on repair, and it's made by Pentax so I don't know when it will be returned from Japan

You are doomed!

01-15-2015, 09:11 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
You people can't be serious, now are you? Have you ever experienced a good touchscreen implementation, like those on Canon or Panasonic cameras? Of course you haven't, which disqualifies all of your useless "reasoning" since you have no experience with those at all. If there's one thing that Pentax is sorely lacking, that is a well made touchscreen interface
Wow......... No wonder Pentax is lacking in sales. I guess that explains it all.

By the way making such sweeping and patently unprovable statements is generally frowned upon. You have no idea what experience other people may or may not have. If you like touch screens you are welcome to your opinion but please do not take it upon yourself to state mine.

I posted a question several pages back asking for honest reasons why a touch screen was a good thing. Several people were nice enough to add their thoughts some of which I felt were valid. But I do not and would not use any of the features they suggested so for me a touch screen would just be another 'gadget' getting in the way of my art.
01-15-2015, 09:28 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Wow......... No wonder Pentax is lacking in sales. I guess that explains it all.

By the way making such sweeping and patently unprovable statements is generally frowned upon. You have no idea what experience other people may or may not have. If you like touch screens you are welcome to your opinion but please do not take it upon yourself to state mine.

I posted a question several pages back asking for honest reasons why a touch screen was a good thing. Several people were nice enough to add their thoughts some of which I felt were valid. But I do not and would not use any of the features they suggested so for me a touch screen would just be another 'gadget' getting in the way of my art.
I'm sorry, I wasn't actually referring to you in the reply. I just couldn't believe the positive feedback between Kunzite and monochrome, dissing an actual benefit in terms of usability that they've clearly never had the chance to properly employ (outside of their smartphone or tablet, which is a different case altogether). It was broad and sweeping just like their own statements, like 'a touchscreen is good on a MILC, but not on a DSLR' (whaaaat?).

To monochrome: I personally hate the position of the Raw/Fx button (made worse in the K-3 with the addition of AF Mode). There's no easy access to flash exposure compensation, it requires multiple presses. Same for flash mode. Not many buttons are customizable, especially for hyper program users. The LV button is awfully placed in both consumer and high-end bodies. And don't get me started on the D-Pad, which is, to me, the worst part of the Pentax interface. It isn't comfortable for either accessing the functions or moving the AF point around. They need to change that design, at least on the high-end bodies. The level of AF control is paltry in comparison with advanced Nikon or Canon cameras (not the entry level ones). Some newer cameras actually have distance information encoded in the lenses, and are making a distance scale available in LV, which could be easily controlled with a touchscreen.
You've been using these cameras for a very long time, but for people new to the system, a touchscreen would help them very much, simply by virtue of being familiar now. And it's coming to all models on the lineup eventually, whether you like it or not. The question is, will you continue to hate a piece of technology simply because it seems foreign to you?
01-15-2015, 09:48 AM   #634
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Do people have such a low view of Pentax to think they can't implement a touchscreen user interface in an advantageous way? If the answer is "yes" then it must have been by chance that Pentax managed to create the current user interface which I think is best in the business.

01-15-2015, 09:53 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
And your snotty comment is out of place... how can you know what experiences we have?
Don't draw conclusions like that... if it works for you and you like it doesn't mean the whole world has to like it. Deal with it.
So is your comment.

How can you know what experiences he has?

What can be said with absolute certainty is that all the things regularly decried on here are going to happen if they haven't happened already - wifi, touchscreens, TS rear LCDs, apps, mobile-friendly stuff, and so on. It's called modernity. Camera companies have no choice in the matter. If they don't implement such things on appropriate cameras (not necessarily all of them on every camera in the range), then they will go out of business because hardly anyone will buy their products. Clever companies will implement these features well and prosper. Dim companies won't. Some of us invest in Pentax because we think they will do a good job and stay in the game. Deal with it.
01-15-2015, 09:54 AM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Do people have such a low view of Pentax to think they can't implement a touchscreen user interface in an advantageous way?
I don't think that is the argument... is more of a "is touch screen worth to have on a DSLR" debate.
Nobody is arguing Pentax ability of implementing such a feature (if they will ever do) - at least I don't.

---------- Post added 01-15-15 at 11:56 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
So is your comment.

How can you know what experiences he has?
I never argued his experiences nor have I made any guesses about it. Where have I done that!? Please, do tell me.

And my comment was not on a snotty/superior tone. Was more of a reply to something that personally I have found offensive.

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-15-2015 at 10:51 AM.
01-15-2015, 10:04 AM - 1 Like   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
The LV button is awfully placed in both consumer and high-end bodies
Agreed.

I still cannot understand how to simultaneously hold the camera with my grip hand, look at the LCD and interact with the LCD with my (same) grip hand, such as when changing focus points - but that is a visualization issue I suppose. I actually can't really understand how to interact with the LCD on a tripod unless there is a bottom-hinged LCD, but I am admittedly old enough that thumbing isn't an acquired skill set.

In your generous response to my question comparing the button utility of the two cameras your references to touch LCD seem to favor LV use, which I have always conceded is appropriate - but I don't use LiveView, so we have a different issue to unpack before we can really discuss touch screen (that is meant to be taken with a touch of humor).

Right along I've said I don't mind if touch screen is available - for that matter I don't mind if anything anyone's heart desires is available - so long as I am not compelled to change the way I interact with the camera. For me, touch is an inferior interface. It isn't necessarily better just because other people say it is necessarily better.

Saying I disagree with you does not make me a Luddite. That aspersion should be reserved for digital technology altogether, and would more appropriately be ascribed to artisan analog lab technicians. Rather I prefer not to be told what hammer I must use - and in so doing that I must change the way I grip a hammer and strike a nail - because younger carpenters never learned the methods I did in my youth. Please don't disparage my experience, my learned preference and please don't force me to change the way I use the tool.*



* in reality I will eventually be forced to change the way I use the tool because manufacturing efficiency will trump user preference. Mechanical buttons are more expensive to assemble and prone to mechanical breakdown. Digital switches (touchscreen is a digital switch) is less expensive to produce and less prone to individual breakdown - though catastrophic failure is - well - catastrophic. My 2-year-old phone is about to head for the dustbin because the screen is losing touch sensitivity.
01-15-2015, 10:12 AM   #638
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You'd think Pentax had already released the crappiest touch screen known to man, judging by some of these comments...

Can't we just wait and see, for once?

01-15-2015, 10:23 AM   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
You people can't be serious, now are you? Have you ever experienced a good touchscreen implementation, like those on Canon or Panasonic cameras? Of course you haven't,
Actually, I have a Panasonic GX7 with a very good touchscreen implementation. The only problem for me is that I don't like it at all. Each to their own.
01-15-2015, 10:41 AM   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
I just couldn't believe the positive feedback between Kunzite and monochrome
Great minds thinks alike

I'm not dissing anything, I'm just aware of implications many people would not be aware of. I'm trained to do so due to my profession; and because of this I cannot share an overoptimistic view. Many gestures described cannot be performed while holding the camera normally, yet this doesn't appear to be of concern?
The problem as I see it, is that functions more often used would benefit less or even be negatively affected by their implementation via a touchscreen interface. For example, you can't use touch gestures while looking through the viewfinder; at the other extreme, a virtual keyboard will benefit tremendously.

In the end, if it would happen - assuming Pentax would have a good implementation, without removing buttons and dials - it would be a minor improvement. MHO.
01-15-2015, 10:47 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kharan Quote
I just couldn't believe the positive feedback between Kunzite and monochrome, dissing an actual benefit in terms of usability that they've clearly never had the chance to properly employ (outside of their smartphone or tablet, which is a different case altogether).
Which actual benefit is that? No one has mentioned one yet.
QuoteQuote:
You've been using these cameras for a very long time, but for people new to the system, a touchscreen would help them very much, simply by virtue of being familiar now
How can a touchscreen system they won't have seen yet be familiar to them, except in the obvious way that they know what a touchscreen is?
01-15-2015, 10:56 AM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
You'd think Pentax had already released the crappiest touch screen known to man, judging by some of these comments...

Can't we just wait and see, for once?
No. I already have a touch screen camera and I hate the interface. The K3 with a flucard becomes a touch screen interface and my whole attention while shooting and moving around is taken by not touching the damn thing.

I have a device that has a touchscreen that I like. It is a tablet. You know what it is very nice for? Consuming media. Watching movies. Perusing my photos. Reading web sites. Do you know what it is terrible at? Producing. I'm typing on it now and it is slow and painful and prone to error.

When I am using my camera I am producing. A friend purchased a D7100 to upgrade his D7000 so he could get a locking mode button because he was losing shots from inadvertantly having it change on him while going through bushes or hanging from a strap. I don't want an interface to watch things. I want buttons with discrete function that I can change without looking. I want all the function that I need available when I have a solid two hand grip on my $6k ish set of hardware in my hands.

What I really want is a third dial assignable to any of the scrollable lists that I may need while shooting. Like ev compensation when in tav mode, or flash compensation.
01-15-2015, 11:23 AM   #643
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What is the chance of the next Pentax dSLR having an articulating screen? For my personal use case I take photos of my toddler, I'd like to get to floor level. Having an articulating screen makes it much more convenient, and this is where a touch screen became useful as well - if i can just pick a spot on the screen to focus...

More than anything this is what probably will drive me away from Pentax dSLRs, I was contemplating on upgrading to the k3 from my k5 but just can't see enough benefit... Sensor is good enough, ergonomics is what I'm used to, but why not add in some feature that really should be pretty common in the price range? Sure not everyone cares about the same thing that I do, but for the price range this should be standard, and this is why Pentax is DOOMED.
01-15-2015, 11:25 AM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yassarian Quote
What is the chance of the next Pentax dSLR having an articulating screen? For my personal use case I take photos of my toddler, I'd like to get to floor level. Having an articulating screen makes it much more convenient, and this is where a touch screen became useful as well - if i can just pick a spot on the screen to focus...

More than anything this is what probably will drive me away from Pentax dSLRs, I was contemplating on upgrading to the k3 from my k5 but just can't see enough benefit... Sensor is good enough, ergonomics is what I'm used to, but why not add in some feature that really should be pretty common in the price range? Sure not everyone cares about the same thing that I do, but for the price range this should be standard, and this is why Pentax is DOOMED.
It is already happening as you can see in the new 'unnamed' model; but don't bank on it on high end models....
01-15-2015, 11:34 AM - 1 Like   #645
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
No. I already have a touch screen camera and I hate the interface. The K3 with a flucard becomes a touch screen interface and my whole attention while shooting and moving around is taken by not touching the damn thing.

I have a device that has a touchscreen that I like. It is a tablet. You know what it is very nice for? Consuming media. Watching movies. Perusing my photos. Reading web sites. Do you know what it is terrible at? Producing. I'm typing on it now and it is slow and painful and prone to error.

When I am using my camera I am producing. A friend purchased a D7100 to upgrade his D7000 so he could get a locking mode button because he was losing shots from inadvertantly having it change on him while going through bushes or hanging from a strap. I don't want an interface to watch things. I want buttons with discrete function that I can change without looking. I want all the function that I need available when I have a solid two hand grip on my $6k ish set of hardware in my hands.

What I really want is a third dial assignable to any of the scrollable lists that I may need while shooting. Like ev compensation when in tav mode, or flash compensation.
I think it's been stated several times in this thread that virtually no one is expecting a touchscreen interface to replace the physical interface. Why are objections being based on this doomsday fear?
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