[filoxophy]

I was looking at the list Adam posted in the forum... here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/94-pentax-price-watch/286630-hot-deals-pe...enses-b-h.html

But I see that he posted a different list (more complete) as an article at the main page of the website. So there goes my theory

I mean hey, I liked the theory! What will be, will be...

[Docrwm]

Are we looking at the same list? All FA Ltds and D FAs are on there...

No, I posted a full list of the sale prices.

[clackers]

So, Adam just posted the new lens sale from B&H.

Only DA and DFA lenses. No FA (Limiteds, 50 1.4), and no DA lenses that are based on older full-frame designs and cover full frame (like DA 35 2.4, 50 1.8 and DFA 100 Macro).

Could it be that the FF is really knocking at the door?

Keep the conspiracies coming! :-D

[Clavius]

So, Adam just posted the new lens sale from B&H.

Only DA and DFA lenses. No FA (Limiteds, 50 1.4), and no DA lenses that are based on older full-frame designs and cover full frame (like DA 35 2.4, 50 1.8 and DFA 100 Macro).

Could it be that the FF is really knocking at the door?

That wouldn't make much sense. First selling customers as many APS-C lenses as possible and then launching the FF camera would generate a lot of bad vibes. The other way round though, selling a lot of FF glass prior to the FF camera launch would be better. It would get people to buy the FF camera as well quicker.

[cxdoo]

That wouldn't make much sense. First selling customers as many APS-C lenses as possible and then launching the FF camera would generate a lot of bad vibes. The other way round though, selling a lot of FF glass prior to the FF camera launch would be better. It would get people to buy the FF camera as well quicker.

You assume the customer base is uniform and everyone wants a FF system. That's not a reasonable assumption.

[Cynog Ap Brychan]

You assume the customer base is uniform and everyone wants a FF system. That's not a reasonable assumption.

I'm not even sure that most people who buy cameras know or care what size sensor is in it. That said, it may not be a reasonable assumption for Pentax DSLR owners, who may be more knowledgeable on the matter. I base this purely on the hypothesis that to buy a Pentax DSLR one must either be an enthusiast, or have done a bit of research into value for money and features.

[cxdoo]

I'm not even sure that most people who buy cameras know or care what size sensor is in it. That said, it may not be a reasonable assumption for Pentax DSLR owners, who may be more knowledgeable on the matter. I base this purely on the hypothesis that to buy a Pentax DSLR one must either be an enthusiast, or have done a bit of research into value for money and features.

Not only that; knowing or not knowing about these technicalities one might prefer the size/weight/price of APS-C system. So to treat APS-C as a swindle or surrogate for the "real thing" is kind of myopic.

[Clavius]

You assume the customer base is uniform and everyone wants a FF system. That's not a reasonable assumption.

Nope, not assuming that. I am assuming though that very little people would be ammused when buying lenses today and only discover later, when they want to buy that mythical FF camera, that those lenses won't work on it. Those people may not even know about sensor sizes, but they won't like when they learn the hard way.

[cxdoo]

. I am assuming though that very little people would be ammused when buying lenses today and only discover later, when they want to buy that mythical FF camera, that those lenses won't work on it. Those people may not even know about sensor sizes, but they won't like when they learn the hard way.

I don't really believe there is such a thing as a person who invested (significantly) into lenses and is unaware of format details. Yes there are many people who don't know this, but they are typically on a kit lens (or two).


Also I don't see why the lenses wouldn't work. Either with vignetting or cropped.

[rawr]

Also I don't see why the lenses wouldn't work. Either with vignetting or cropped.

Many DA lenses, especially primes, will work fine as is. If they don't work without any troublesome issues like vignetting, a Pentax FF will no doubt have the option to mount crop lenses and just have them work in reduced MP crop mode if desired. Just like Nikon and Sony, for example, handle the same issues with their mounts. It's not a drama.

[totsmuyco]

I don't know much about technical issues but what would happen if I mounted my 18-135 on a FF? Would it be something like a 20 - 140? I've seen a friend's Tamron 300 mm zoom which he uses on a d3200 being mounted on another friend's d600 with no issues. I just don't know the crop equivant but if it's possible with Nikon won't it be possible with Pentax?

[richandfleur]

Many DA lenses, especially primes, will work fine as is. If they don't work without any troublesome issues like vignetting, a Pentax FF will no doubt have the option to mount crop lenses and just have them work in reduced MP crop mode if desired. Just like Nikon and Sony, for example, handle the same issues with their mounts. It's not a drama.

On a side note, I'm not sure why more companies aren't approaching video with this concept in mind.
If you think about it Full HD is a 2MP image, so the 20MP sensor is being scaled down dramatically to create the video image with the same field of view.

Technically there is no reason why the final 2MP image couldn't be made up of just a 2MP area in the middle of the sensor. This would give a massive 'zoom' whilst still providing 1:1 pixel mapping, without needing any nasty 'digital zoom' image stretching. You could call it digital crop zooming or something like that, and you could offer a range of steps.

I know this is offered for stills and maybe video on FF sensors to utilise the APS-C area of the sensor. It gives prime lenses some zoom ability, so is like having two lenses instead of one. This works exceptionally well for video work as the final image is so small 2MP compared to the stills sensor size of say 16-24MP.

Just an idea, if anyone at Pentax is listening...

[rawr]

what would happen if I mounted my 18-135 on a FF?...if it's possible with Nikon won't it be possible with Pentax?

The 18-135 lens would basically work OK, but probably vignette a lot. The way I guess it would work is that your 24 MP (or 36MP) Pentax FF would offer you the option to mount the lens normally and get AF and everything, but it would only capture at a 'crop' resolution of perhaps 10MP (like the 24MP D610 does when used in DX crop mode). That's how the Nikon equivalent of the Pentax 18-135 (the Nikon 18-105 kit lens) works when mounted on FF.

The cheap and cheerful Tamron AF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 macro zoom for Nikon and Pentax is, by the way, a FF design that is fully compatible with Nikon and Pentax FF bodies. No problems there.

Pentax has no doubt studied very carefully what Nikon has been doing when crop Nikon lenses mount on Nikon FF's. I suspect all the 'crop' mode features found in Nikon will be reflected in Pentax's implementation of FF, and more.

[mrNewt]

I don't know much about technical issues but what would happen if I mounted my 18-135 on a FF? Would it be something like a 20 - 140? I've seen a friend's Tamron 300 mm zoom which he uses on a d3200 being mounted on another friend's d600 with no issues. I just don't know the crop equivant but if it's possible with Nikon won't it be possible with Pentax?

Ummm... a 18-135mm on FF is a... 18-135mm .
You don't do equivalency on FF bodies... you do them on crop bodies.

What it will happen, most probably, is that from 35mm and below, it will start vignette like crazy...

[Erictator]

You assume the customer base is uniform and everyone wants a FF system. That's not a reasonable assumption.

To be entirely honest with myself, and everyone reading this, after a lot of soul searching.... I don't "think" I'd give a rat's booty about FF if the new generation 24MP APSC sensor was as clean and ISO flexible as the K5 16MP sensor, but it's not.

You can't take a 100% view crop from the 24mp APSC and get as clean of an image like you can with the K5. I can't count how many images I just didn't have the reach for because I had a normal prime or my wide to normal short zoom mounted at the moment a spontaneous shot became available, but was able to get 100% view crop usable images from the K5.


The K5 sensor is amazing at this and has me spoiled! I didn't like ANY Pentax sensors as much as my DS 6MP which I still own and was a great little camera, and then bought and quickly got rid of my K10, K20 was ok but was hoping the AF was better on the K7... not so much, and hated the sensor, sold it and finally bought a K5 when it came out and was VERY HAPPY with the K5 sensor rendering and kept it. The K5 16MP sensor is the modern replacement for the DS 6MP to me. Finally! The AF still leaves a lot to be desired, but it's ok for now.


This is a big thing for me. Lets face it, when pressed for time and you have to succeed, center spot focus on the subject, depending on subject and distance, and shoot a little wider than needed is what you do when it's critical to just "get the shot" and worry about composition later in post processing. We don't always have time to lock focus, recompose then take the shot. So, in order to do this nicely, you need to be able to throw away some of the image and still have a clean shot, regardless of ISO, etc.


Any camera that gives me this advantage is what I want, I don't care what's inside it to get me there, but I'm also not ignorant that FF is going to be a leg up in this type of shooting, and any improvement in tech that makes an APSC sensor do this better, will "probably" make a new generation FF sensor do it even better still.


All that said, I'm twiddling my thumbs, avoiding the call of the K3 (I would love the improved AF, but it's rendering reminds me a little too much of the K7) so I am sitting on my K5 for now. I wonder how many K3 sales Ricoh has lost because people are waiting on the fence for something else?


It's your move Ricoh.


Eric