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01-27-2015, 08:59 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I'm not that surprised but to eliminate any 'Sony influence' we should get 12 and 14bit files from the same camera.
I don't think the K5/K3 can be congired that way. Can they?

Anyway, 16bit files for anything than gimmick marketing (and hard drive space) would ask for major DR advance. Lately DR has rather tendency to contract somewhat (16Mp->24Mp APS).
I don't know if you have me on ignore...but for others, I pointed out that the K-5 has better shadow recovery than the K-30, which eliminates the "Sony" influence. Both Pentax cameras.

I think you can change from 12 to 14 bit on the D800. Most folks agree that it isn't a huge difference, but it isn't negligible.

01-27-2015, 02:37 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I don't know if you have me on ignore...but for others, I pointed out that the K-5 has better shadow recovery than the K-30, which eliminates the "Sony" influence. Both Pentax cameras.

I think you can change from 12 to 14 bit on the D800. Most folks agree that it isn't a huge difference, but it isn't negligible.
I read your post, forgot to reply properly though, indeed.
Maybe this is splitting hear but K30 not being a K5... which is why, ideally, it should come out of the same camera.
But the K30 vs K5 is probably a lot more useable than the Sony vs Pentax, certainly.
01-27-2015, 03:09 PM - 1 Like   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I'm not that surprised but to eliminate any 'Sony influence' we should get 12 and 14bit files from the same camera.
I don't think the K5/K3 can be congired that way. Can they?

Anyway, 16bit files for anything than gimmick marketing (and hard drive space) would ask for major DR advance. Lately DR has rather tendency to contract somewhat (16Mp->24Mp APS).
K5 and K3 cannot be configured to give 12 bit files - i'm pretty sure having never seen those options.

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I pointed out that the K-5 has better shadow recovery than the K-30, which eliminates the "Sony" influence. Both Pentax cameras.

I think you can change from 12 to 14 bit on the D800. Most folks agree that it isn't a huge difference, but it isn't negligible.
Doesn't the Dynamic Range, i.e. the maximum stops of light between total black and total white, tell us effectively how well the 14 bit files are serving us. I went on DXO Pentax K-5 II versus Pentax K-30 versus Pentax K5 - Side by side camera comparison - DxOMark

and it says that K5 and K5 II had 14.1 EV stops of DR. While the K30 only has 13 stops of DR. 14.1/13 = about 8.5% difference in DR. So its not a huge amount of difference, but its not insignificant either.

If i'm not right in my assumption that DR shows the advantage of 14bit files over 12bit files, just let me know as i'm always ready to learn :-)
01-27-2015, 11:26 PM   #64
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If 16 bit could help to have 2 stops difference over 12 bit files not only at minimal ISO, but till ISO800, it would be big progress.

01-28-2015, 06:21 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
If 16 bit could help to have 2 stops difference over 12 bit files not only at minimal ISO, but till ISO800, it would be big progress.
Clearly but we shouldn't dream too much...
01-28-2015, 03:34 PM   #66
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16-bit etc. is all theoretically fine, but in the end, it calls for skills in post processing. Who really needs that, or better to say, all that for the satisfaction of 1% of the users?

Most of the time people cannot see visible difference between 12-bit and 14-bit files, as 12-bit files are more than sufficient. Then those 12-bit files are then saved as 8-bit compressed JPEGs for share — in the camera, for convenience.

I did not notice that Ricoh has tried hard to improve 14-bit or 12-bit DNG to JPEG conversion. Their JPEG engine is very much primitive compared to some on the market. So what's the real benefit of a progress towards more bits of depth if its toll is more photographer's time wasted and JPEGs equally shallow?

I would rather like preserving the current sensor technology but with vastly improved JPEG engines. Ricoh must move out of its conservative film paradigm of thinking — that files must be massaged to perfection by the lab or experienced user — because even their own flagship product, the GR, makes miserable JPEG files. It's practically unusable as a convenient photographer's tool, as for even decent results one must use RAW. And photography at gunpoint is not fun at all.

Last edited by Uluru; 01-28-2015 at 03:41 PM.
01-28-2015, 06:03 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
16-bit etc. is all theoretically fine, but in the end, it calls for skills in post processing. Who really needs that, or better to say, all that for the satisfaction of 1% of the users?
.
I can't believe you said that. So if Uluru doesn't want a feature, then noone should have it.

The 1 percenters are the ones who are professionals, the wedding/portrait, NFL photographers, and gallery members who sell pictures. The 1 percenters are the ones who are nutty enough to buy new cameras and accessories every year. Yeah why do we need the nutty types, lets just make a law that noone is allowed to use anything but a smart phone for taking pictures.

Without the 1 per centers, this world would be a far duller place.
01-28-2015, 08:24 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It's practically unusable as a convenient photographer's tool...photography at gunpoint is not fun at all.
A little bit too much drama and exaggeration there. The GR seems perfectly good and usable for many a photogragher.

01-28-2015, 09:31 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
New functionalities for the K-3 in an important firmware update.
Someone said that's coming (Significant new FW) March/April (and for 645)
01-28-2015, 09:44 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I can't believe you said that. So if Uluru doesn't want a feature, then noone should have it.
C'mon. You know how these speculative threads work.

NFMsNFA.

And in the end we get so over-the-top hopeful that the fact pales by comparison to the dream.
01-29-2015, 04:25 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
16-bit etc. is all theoretically fine, but in the end, it calls for skills in post processing. Who really needs that, or better to say, all that for the satisfaction of 1% of the users?

Most of the time people cannot see visible difference between 12-bit and 14-bit files, as 12-bit files are more than sufficient.
I see the difference between K-5IIs and K200D in C1Pro - outstanding DR in hard condition vs K200D.
01-29-2015, 04:46 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
C'mon. You know how these speculative threads work.

NFMsNFA.

And in the end we get so over-the-top hopeful that the fact pales by comparison to the dream.
Absolutely.

I want Ricoh to send me a list of features they are thinking about exploring for future cameras so I can tell them which ones to scratch. Things like video and auto focus are definitely off the list!
01-29-2015, 09:50 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
C'mon. You know how these speculative threads work.
Even more specifically...
C'mon, you know Uluru works.
01-29-2015, 01:53 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I can't believe you said that. So if Uluru doesn't want a feature, then noone should have it.

The 1 percenters are the ones who are professionals, the ...
I did not say that.
I said that with another feature (JPEG engine) upgraded to 4 times better than before (equivalent to 2 stops, right), 100% of users would be happier, not only 1%.
01-29-2015, 02:15 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Even more specifically...
C'mon, you know Uluru works.
He's really alright.

Most days.



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