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08-26-2008, 05:45 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
If they do show a FF model, it will be more of a "smoke and mirrors" gesture than anything else. The market is not going FF in any major way, it's actually a very small percentage of sales, only the rhetoric is growing!


Thats too early to say. Until now, the FF market have been horribly expensive cameras that cannot sell in large numbers (except the D3 that probably outsell any Pentax model!) due to their price. The exception is the 5D but that one is obsolete and doesn't offer better image quality than the better APS models.
However, the D700 have just hit the shelves; the A900 is soon here; the Canon 5DMkII likewise. Then theres the 24mp Nikon in the pipeline. I have no doubt that these cameras will transform the market and make FF marketshare quadruple...Theres no way the manufacturer would have released these models if they expected a continued marketshare for FF at 2%.
The growth of the DSLR market overall is expected to end any minute now; both due to market saturation and the recession. FF is a coming growth sector....

...and then theres the signal effect and prestige. Theres no doubt that the buzz at Photokina is going to be about FF. The fact that both the Nikon D90 and the Canon 50D is preannounced or leaked, means that those manufacturer have something more newsworthy (or nothing!) for the show proper...

08-26-2008, 06:08 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
If they do show a FF model, it will be more of a "smoke and mirrors" gesture than anything else. The market is not going FF in any major way, it's actually a very small percentage of sales, only the rhetoric is growing!

I have some apprehension that the upcoming KxxxxD may be too little and too late to compete at the entry point, even the cheapest models from C, N, Sony and Oly outspec the K200D in several areas. In fact the existing K200D is now behind the other entry point models in all but one or two areas, notably weather sealing.

Personally I hope that the new entry model has a CMOS sensor with LV, and that they also announce an upgrade for the K200D using the Samsung 14.6MP sensor and also upgrade the K20D to be in line with the (anticipated) 50D and D90 specs.

I believe it would be totally sensible for Pentax to use the 14.6MP sensor across the board and just vary the body designs and features for model differentiation. That would be in line with their reputed philosophy of IQ before gizmos.
Richard,
As usual your analysis makes total sense. I think there might be more to the FF model than you suggest only because that is where Samsung wants to be. We may see a salable body by PMA.

If the low end model does have LV for marketing reasons and the 14.6MP sensor for reputed philosophy of IQ it could be a winner but only if it is priced just below the Canon and Nikon models. That is were there might be a problem considering Hoya's demand for a good profit margin. Because of the way I use my K10D, I'd consider replacing it with the low end model if it has the 14.6MP sensor, is smaller and lighter, and priced right.

Hoping for an upgrade on the K20D is, IMO, a bridge to far. I'm still convinced Hoya will not invest any money and Pentax is not making enough to support that much development.

The K200D was a none starter from the beginning, a "Tain't" if you will. Tain't this and tain't that. I'd be surprised to hear that sales figures met expectations.

All and all it looks like another year of waiting to see if Pentax will become my only system.

Regards,
08-26-2008, 07:23 AM   #138
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Pentax shoul focus more on the emerging markets

This comes from my personal experience and others (like a member of our system from Argentina for example). There are many new markets without that much brand loyalty, legacy lenses and very price driven. Those markets could be the safe heaven for Pentax until it reforms its very poor performing US branch and consolidate further the western Europe operations and local Japan market. The major benefits to be advertised on those markets are the strong points of the Pentax's entry level:

- rugged and weather sealed;
- SR in body;
- very good kit lens;
- very good "second" kit lens in the DA 55-300.

IMO they should step up the marketing and advertising in those areas (eastern Europe, South America, parts of Asia) and make cost saving bundles of body and the 2 lenses to incurage the sales (some will sell one of those 2 lenses to another person).

My 2 eurocents,
Radu
08-26-2008, 07:39 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Richard,

If the low end model does have LV for marketing reasons and the 14.6MP sensor for reputed philosophy of IQ it could be a winner but only if it is priced just below the Canon and Nikon models. ,

Rumor has it that the entry level model (KXXXXD) use the 10mp sensor.
I don't think the products are Pentax main problem, apart from the fact that they are too few and too close to each other for comfort, but marketing and distribution...

08-26-2008, 01:59 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
The K200D was a none starter from the beginning, a "Tain't" if you will. Tain't this and tain't that. I'd be surprised to hear that sales figures met expectations.
Damn, and to think that I've been happily using this body with the reviled DA35 macro - how long before I'm banned from this place altogether?! I think this forum takes the award for all-time negativity, as there seems to be much doom-and-gloom in Pentax land. Perhaps it's a sign that I'm wasting time reading these forums, at least until a few years from now when I need to upgrade my gear. I hope you all find the tools you need to reach photographic nirvana, if in fact you think it's a piece of technology that will do the trick
08-26-2008, 05:17 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Damn, and to think that I've been happily using this body with the reviled DA35 macro - how long before I'm banned from this place altogether?! I think this forum takes the award for all-time negativity, as there seems to be much doom-and-gloom in Pentax land. Perhaps it's a sign that I'm wasting time reading these forums, at least until a few years from now when I need to upgrade my gear. I hope you all find the tools you need to reach photographic nirvana, if in fact you think it's a piece of technology that will do the trick
Quit it with the negative vibes man, we're only happy when we're complaining. Could someone pass the Prozac please?
08-26-2008, 06:06 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Damn, and to think that I've been happily using this body with the reviled DA35 macro - how long before I'm banned from this place altogether?! I think this forum takes the award for all-time negativity, as there seems to be much doom-and-gloom in Pentax land. Perhaps it's a sign that I'm wasting time reading these forums, at least until a few years from now when I need to upgrade my gear. I hope you all find the tools you need to reach photographic nirvana, if in fact you think it's a piece of technology that will do the trick

That combination is know to cause pink eye. Be careful. Wear protection.
08-26-2008, 06:45 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
Damn, and to think that I've been happily using this body with the reviled DA35 macro - how long before I'm banned from this place altogether?! I think this forum takes the award for all-time negativity, as there seems to be much doom-and-gloom in Pentax land. Perhaps it's a sign that I'm wasting time reading these forums, at least until a few years from now when I need to upgrade my gear. I hope you all find the tools you need to reach photographic nirvana, if in fact you think it's a piece of technology that will do the trick
Sorry you thought I was knocking the K200D for it's quality. My comment was one of market placement. It has to many upscale features to belong in the entry level market but not a low enough price to be competitive in that segment. It appeals to the knowledgeable photographer on a budget but I'm not sure if that is a major buying group.
My comment was a knock on the Pentax strategy, if there is one, not on the quality of the body.

Regards

08-27-2008, 03:33 PM   #144
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K2000D will most likely have the same body as K200D only crappier insides and no weathersealing. (I am almost sure about this after talking to some guy)

I was hoping and hoping for a smaller, more streamlined body with grip as accessory (LX-style), no popup flash and rechargable batteries (AA's take up too much space and they weigh too much). A pocketable camera with interchangable lenses that's not a )(€&#) 4/3 mount but good ole K-daddy Pentax.
08-27-2008, 03:52 PM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shashinki Quote
K2000D will most likely have the same body as K200D only crappier insides and no weathersealing. (I am almost sure about this after talking to some guy)
How do you get 'crappier' insides? They could remove the IS and weather sealing, but then it would suffer in comparison to the 4-year old *istDS. Canon, Nikon and Sony are all bringing their A-games, and if Hoya doesn't want to play, they should sell off the camera division to someone who does. There can't be any slackers in this market, especially with the global economy in a downward slide.
08-27-2008, 04:32 PM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Sorry you thought I was knocking the K200D for it's quality. My comment was one of market placement. It has to many upscale features to belong in the entry level market but not a low enough price to be competitive in that segment. It appeals to the knowledgeable photographer on a budget but I'm not sure if that is a major buying group.
My comment was a knock on the Pentax strategy, if there is one, not on the quality of the body.

Regards

That is true, but I suspect theres a long term plan in this. I expect them to implement the 14,6mp sensor in that platform in the form of the K300D. Add live view and other goodies. In the process, move the K20D upmarket as well by making it faster in all respects; K30D.
This give more breathing room for the coming entry level body and make the K30D to better compete with the Canon 50D and the Nikon D300....
08-27-2008, 04:56 PM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shashinki Quote
K2000D will most likely have the same body as K200D only crappier insides and no weathersealing. (I am almost sure about this after talking to some guy)

I was hoping and hoping for a smaller, more streamlined body with grip as accessory (LX-style), no popup flash and rechargable batteries (AA's take up too much space and they weigh too much). A pocketable camera with interchangable lenses that's not a )(€&#) 4/3 mount but good ole K-daddy Pentax.
Sorry but K2000D is not a luxury item but a very inexpensive camera to battle the D40/40x and older Rebels of the competition. So expect something very mainstream not a small niche camera. If we maintain scale it hopefully will do for Pentax what D40 did for Nikon some years ago. That is to bring a lot of new users into K mount system.

Radu
08-27-2008, 04:59 PM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shashinki Quote
K2000D will most likely have the same body as K200D NOonly crappier insides latest gen SR and no weathersealing the jury is still out on that. (I am almost sure about this after talking to some guy) He was wrong

I was hoping and hoping for a smaller, more streamlined body with grip as accessory (LX-style), no popup flash and rechargable batteries (AA's take up too much space and they weigh too much). A pocketable camera with interchangable lenses that's not a )(€&#) 4/3 mount but good ole K-daddy Pentax.
.............
Radu
08-27-2008, 10:01 PM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
This comes from my personal experience and others (like a member of our system from Argentina for example). There are many new markets without that much brand loyalty, legacy lenses and very price driven. Those markets could be the safe heaven for Pentax until it reforms its very poor performing US branch and consolidate further the western Europe operations and local Japan market. The major benefits to be advertised on those markets are the strong points of the Pentax's entry level:

- rugged and weather sealed;
- SR in body;
- very good kit lens;
- very good "second" kit lens in the DA 55-300.

IMO they should step up the marketing and advertising in those areas (eastern Europe, South America, parts of Asia) and make cost saving bundles of body and the 2 lenses to incurage the sales (some will sell one of those 2 lenses to another person).

My 2 eurocents,
Radu
I strongly agree!

Though I'm not sure Weather seal is needed for an entry level dslr..As long as it is $500 with kit lens and $800 with the 55-300 combo, it will sell like hot cakes in india provided they market it aggressively..
08-28-2008, 05:33 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by hrishi Quote
I strongly agree!

Though I'm not sure Weather seal is needed for an entry level dslr..As long as it is $500 with kit lens and $800 with the 55-300 combo, it will sell like hot cakes in india provided they market it aggressively..
Hi, Hrishi!

I was talking about the current entry level (K200D) that has wheater sealing anyway! This one and the K2000D could make deep inrods in the markets of price driven economies IMO!

Radu
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