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06-14-2008, 02:06 PM   #76
RaduA
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QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
let me amend this, slightly.



that's better.

i'm still disturbed by the fact that our lens roadmap is small, and we're running out of new lenses..
I just want to point out that since january Pentax has introduced the following lenses:

- zooms: DA 18-55 II, DA 55-300, DA 17-70
- primes: DA Macro 35 Ltd, DA* 200, DA* 300
- expected until august 08 - DA* 55, DA* 60-250
Total: 6 lenses available, 2 comming soon

In the latest roadmap (march 08) only DA 15 Ltd, DA* 30 and the SDM rear converter will remain after summer as unfinished. My prediction for the next roadmap is a fleury of new lenses including a DA Ltd 135, a longer zoom and a DA* 85 or 90

Radu

06-15-2008, 04:41 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Here's my opinion(s)

If Pentax makes a low end DSLR, they stand a chance of getting the kids and starving students on board. That's how the K1000 worked originally for Pentax from what I've read. These kids and students will hopefully become the next generation of Pro's and by then Pentax can have a Pro DSLR ready for them.

If Pentax makes a Pro DSLR now, the only guaranteed market they have are the enthusiasts like the people on this Forum who suffer from CBA and can afford them. All the Pro's have their systems already. I don't think Pentax is going to gamble that Pro's with C and N are going to jump ship and buy a Pentax just because they've brought out a camera for them.

Just my 2 pennies/cents worth.
Gary
Your first statement is sadly based upon yesterdays circumstances.

Today the kids and starving students purchasing is based upon mass sales, a basic camera that demands skill in using it doesn't figure. Todays first time DSLR buyers are migrating from P&S models and expect (and demand) live view (and full auto modes). You and I may think it's a gimmick, but they think a viewfinder is wierd. I could even see the prism and mirror being dropped eventually, God help us!

I agree to a large degree with your second statement, it just depends where you draw the line between pro and enthusiast, even though I'd love Pentax to make a D2x type of camera, I suspect it's more akin to something like the Nikon D300 being the top level of the Pentax range.
06-27-2008, 05:07 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Your first statement is sadly based upon yesterdays circumstances.

Today the kids and starving students purchasing is based upon mass sales, a basic camera that demands skill in using it doesn't figure. Todays first time DSLR buyers are migrating from P&S models and expect (and demand) live view (and full auto modes). You and I may think it's a gimmick, but they think a viewfinder is wierd. I could even see the prism and mirror being dropped eventually, God help us!

I agree to a large degree with your second statement, it just depends where you draw the line between pro and enthusiast, even though I'd love Pentax to make a D2x type of camera, I suspect it's more akin to something like the Nikon D300 being the top level of the Pentax range.
I agree, but surely the k20 is much like the d300? takes pretty good photos at any rate
06-28-2008, 09:16 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Your first statement is sadly based upon yesterdays circumstances.

Today the kids and starving students purchasing is based upon mass sales, a basic camera that demands skill in using it doesn't figure. Todays first time DSLR buyers are migrating from P&S models and expect (and demand) live view (and full auto modes). You and I may think it's a gimmick, but they think a viewfinder is wierd. I could even see the prism and mirror being dropped eventually, God help us!

I agree to a large degree with your second statement, it just depends where you draw the line between pro and enthusiast, even though I'd love Pentax to make a D2x type of camera, I suspect it's more akin to something like the Nikon D300 being the top level of the Pentax range.
I would be quite happy with a camera with the general feature set of the K20D but with some improvements in build quality (not at all bad now) and improved low light focus etc., ...but I would really like to see some improvements with accessories like a better shoe mount flash system. One that is closer to what Nikon offers. It's the accessories that make the system!

Mike.

06-28-2008, 09:38 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by MikePerham Quote
I would be quite happy with a camera with the general feature set of the K20D but with some improvements in build quality (not at all bad now) and improved low light focus etc., ...but I would really like to see some improvements with accessories like a better shoe mount flash system. One that is closer to what Nikon offers. It's the accessories that make the system!

Mike.
Three years ago I went from strictly 35mm film shooting (after over 30 years) to digital. I never owned a P & S except for a crappy Vivitar I got for Christmas. I went directly to Fuji bridgecams just to get some "digital knowledge. This Spring I got a Pentax k100d I got from Ebay with lots of lenses and accessories, I resold that (body only) for more than I paid I paid for the whole kit, With the extra money,I bought a k200d body from Amazon and haven't looked back. I love the fact that SR works on most every lens Pentax ever made, including Spotmatics. I may lose the AF but the money savings are well worth the loss of that feature. Ebay is a paradise for anyone looking for a spare Pentax lens.


Barry
06-28-2008, 02:53 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Your first statement is sadly based upon yesterdays circumstances.

Today the kids and starving students purchasing is based upon mass sales, a basic camera that demands skill in using it doesn't figure. Todays first time DSLR buyers are migrating from P&S models and expect (and demand) live view (and full auto modes). You and I may think it's a gimmick, but they think a viewfinder is wierd. I could even see the prism and mirror being dropped eventually, God help us!

I agree to a large degree with your second statement, it just depends where you draw the line between pro and enthusiast, even though I'd love Pentax to make a D2x type of camera, I suspect it's more akin to something like the Nikon D300 being the top level of the Pentax range.
I agree, I think 1st time buyers are comparing to higher end p&s, and think buy the best body you can get and then lenses later (if at all). I think the demand for a cut down version to be very cheap, everyone wants thousands of features. Other people looking for a small 2nd body have different expectations. 1 person is happy with no viewfinder but good live view, another is happy with viewfinder and no screen at all. Same with each feature 1FPS or 5FPS? by the time time you cut it down the market gets even smaller because noone is happy.

unfortunately saying all the pros have systems is never ending, you never end creating a pro system and keep putting it off and as people advance you keep losing them as Pentax has done for many years (nedB mentions this with k1000). I *think* there is enough wealthy amatuers / semi-pros / pros to support a pentax pro system, there would also be some out there willing to support a 2nd body if it wasnt too expensive that they use the limiteds with (a lot of people regret losing those when they change). Done well pentax could over time pull a number pros back.

just my thoughts
Phil

Last edited by philmorley; 06-28-2008 at 07:47 PM.
06-28-2008, 08:09 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I don't get your point, really.
What I mean by that is what is the point of making an 'affordable' SLR if 99% of the lenses are going to end up costing more than the body by a significant amount. All the prime lenses are limiteds or "*"s. Why can't they make some DA primes like they did with the FA primes and not have them be in the $500 range?

QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Won't you consider the 18-55mm kit lens "low end" enough? How much simpler do you want it to be? Wait, let's take away the zoom ring and viola we get a prime lens.
The kit lenses are nice, but there are only 2 of them...

QuoteOriginally posted by OniFactor Quote
i'm still disturbed by the fact that our lens roadmap is small, and we're running out of new lenses..
I couldnt agree more!
06-29-2008, 01:48 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
What I mean by that is what is the point of making an 'affordable' SLR if 99% of the lenses are going to end up costing more than the body by a significant amount. All the prime lenses are limiteds or "*"s. Why can't they make some DA primes like they did with the FA primes and not have them be in the $500 range?
Except the DA14 and DFA ones, I agree. But brands don't care much, the buyer realizes that later once he's screwed already. It is a point you make here but not that much important (unfortunately).

Also, FA50/35 are still here, I know I'd like'em SDM and all but they are here.

QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
The kit lenses are nice, but there are only 2 of them...
*DA18-55
*DA20-500
*DA55-300

We should IMO add the DA 18-250.
It makes four.

Edit: They might wanna add (but low priority IMO, really) something like a 18-125 or 16-80 but lowish f/3.5-5.6 SDM.


Last edited by thibs; 06-29-2008 at 02:49 AM.
06-29-2008, 04:29 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Except the DA14 and DFA ones, I agree. But brands don't care much, the buyer realizes that later once he's screwed already. It is a point you make here but not that much important (unfortunately).

Also, FA50/35 are still here, I know I'd like'em SDM and all but they are here.


*DA18-55
*DA20-500
*DA55-300

We should IMO add the DA 18-250.
It makes four.

Edit: They might wanna add (but low priority IMO, really) something like a 18-125 or 16-80 but lowish f/3.5-5.6 SDM.
BOY!

I want that 20-500! - Is it an f4.0 constant!?

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised that we will eventually see a replacement for the rebadged Tamron, or a mid-level super zoom at the same level as the DA 17-70. Maybe only 200mm max, but a bit faster through the focal range (f3.5 - f5.6?) and with SDM and QS.

Last edited by Richard Day; 06-29-2008 at 04:37 AM.
06-29-2008, 05:37 AM   #85
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There will be no entry level body

QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
Your first statement is sadly based upon yesterdays circumstances.


I agree to a large degree with your second statement, it just depends where you draw the line between pro and enthusiast, even though I'd love Pentax to make a D2x type of camera, I suspect it's more akin to something like the Nikon D300 being the top level of the Pentax range.
Nor will there be an improved AF system to compete with the D300! Just wanted to go on record here to restate my interpretation of what Ned said in his last interview. It would be folly for Pentax to follow the crowd. They have become a niche market manufacturer and chasing the mainstream is not where they want, or should want, to be.

Any new bodies we see from this point on will be feature rich for the landscape, studio, and static object shooters. An AF assist lamp will be added for better low light focusing but the present more accurate AF system will not be changed. The fps rate might get a little boost if that doesn't demand a new mirror setup. Better resolution and higher DR at low ISO numbers will be the goal with the new bodies.

This separates them from everybody else and gives them an identity. The new bodies will not be cheap! Trying to compete in the price end of the market is unprofitable and not the Hoya philosophy. This will also cost them the loyal customers that want an action/ sports camera but those people are already jumping ship so not that much of a loss. I have no idea of what these new changes will be but expect them to be out of the mainstream. It is the only sensible marketing approach Pentax can take.

If I am wrong we will see the Pentax brand disappear very shortly and change into Samsung. I'm excited about what Pentax will bring out this fall if they follow what Ned was saying. People like 35mmfilm_user, *isteve, and Ben are going to love the new high end body. If they do come out with an entry level unit just to compete it will be their death toll.

Ken

Last edited by regken; 06-29-2008 at 05:54 AM.
06-29-2008, 06:28 AM   #86
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I still see a possibility of AF/FPS improvements but defenitely no Canon 1D/Nikon D3 killer speed. This is indeed suicide. 5 or even 6fps is possible as well as a bit faster AF.

Guys waiting for a 10fps/very high speed AF should look elsewhere if they did not understand already.
06-29-2008, 07:32 AM   #87
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More OEM

QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote
BOY!

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised that we will eventually see a replacement for the rebadged Tamron, or a mid-level super zoom at the same level as the DA 17-70. Maybe only 200mm max, but a bit faster through the focal range (f3.5 - f5.6?) and with SDM and QS.
As a strong believer in the OEM concept I think they should add every lens made by anybody to the line. It doesn't cost them anything other than a little inventory and adds profit to the bottom line. Why waste your time reinventing the wheel when Sigma. Tamron, Tokina, or anybody else has already done the work. They can get a 10-15% premium with the Pentax name glued on.

It also takes care of the shortage of FF lenses if Samsung pushes that issue. Something like the Tamron 17-50 and Sigma 17-70 would create an overlap but so what? More choices for those that want Pentax branded lenses and the appearance of a much more robust lens lineup. If they are really intent about going after the specialty shops as Ned says, it also gives them a full arsenal of lenses to back up the bodies.

Ken
06-29-2008, 07:52 AM   #88
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Brian,
Thats a good idea. It would be a truly limited body and still cost much less.

Dave

QuoteOriginally posted by the_int21h Quote
How about a full frame sensor pinhole camera? All it has is a power button and a USB port...
-Brian
06-29-2008, 08:37 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
As a strong believer in the OEM concept I think they should add every lens made by anybody to the line. It doesn't cost them anything other than a little inventory and adds profit to the bottom line. Why waste your time reinventing the wheel when Sigma. Tamron, Tokina, or anybody else has already done the work. They can get a 10-15% premium with the Pentax name glued on.

It also takes care of the shortage of FF lenses if Samsung pushes that issue. Something like the Tamron 17-50 and Sigma 17-70 would create an overlap but so what? More choices for those that want Pentax branded lenses and the appearance of a much more robust lens lineup. If they are really intent about going after the specialty shops as Ned says, it also gives them a full arsenal of lenses to back up the bodies.

Ken
Historically Pentax have used Tamron and Cosina as OEM suppliers with cosmetic re-badges. AFAIK they have never used Sigma, nor has any other major camera maker.

Recently the link with Tokina in co-development has resulted in similar but more divergently different cosmetics than before, or with the recent Tamron rebadge (DA 18-250).

Rebadging indiscriminently across the board would just dilute the individuality that Pentax lenses have (and desired by Pentaxians), the pancake prime Limiteds are a typical example.

Remember that Hoya are major glass suppliers and I believe will want to seriously extend their capability through Pentax offerings. There's profit in glass and Hoya are profit driven!

Here are my musings for the future. They are not based (well, not a lot ) on any prior knowledge, they are just "my" guesses/wishes.

I believe that there will be more zooms introduced over the next 12-24 month period, including the expected DA(*?) 11-16 f2.8 WA zoom, and I also believe that a super zoom will be among them, more likely to be a step up from the existing DA 18-250 as I said. It may even be another joint Pentokina effort.

I would also like to see something like a quality (DA* level) 135-400 (f2.8-f4.5?) and 200-500 (F4.0-5.6?) added. With those aperture sizes, both would be able to utilise the largest commonly available filter size of 95 mm without going to the extra costs of rear filter systems.

Then maybe an even a slightly faster (non DA* and extending zoom) SDM+QS 55-300 (f3.5-4.5 with 67mm thread, as in the 17-70) would also be very nice as a mid range offering between the current DA 55-300 and the DA*60-250. Let's keep to the 55mm (not 70mm) start point as it's a very handy focal length to start a tele-zoom at, 70 is just a tad too long, the overlap is very handy.

Finally a DA* 15-60(+) at least f4.0 constant to pair with the DA*60-250.

We would then have a very nice 2 tier DA set-up

DA 18-55 mkII + DA 55-300 f4.0-5.8 (kit) set
DA 17-70 f4.0 SDM + DA 55-300 f3.5-4.5 SDM mid range

and a great 2 tier DA* Weather Sealed setup,

DA*15-60 f4.0 SDM + DA*60-250 f4.0 SDM + DA*200-500 f4.0- 5.6 SDM
DA(*) 11-6 f2.8, DA*16-50 f2.8, DA*50-135 f2.8 SDM, + DA*135-400 f2.8-f4.5

Naturally there will be TC's and also more super primes as well, but we are ahead of the competition and doing pretty well with those already! Not being a major prime shooter I will leave the wishes for those to others. Maybe an 85 f1.4 and 135 f2.0, am I warm?!

I also believe that a new roadmap introduced either by Photokina or by PMA will get the LBA adrenalin coursing once again!

There you have my crystal ball!
06-29-2008, 09:29 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Richard Day Quote

Rebadging indiscriminently across the board would just dilute the individuality that Pentax lenses have (and desired by Pentaxians), the pancake prime Limiteds are a typical example.

Remember that Hoya are major glass suppliers and I believe will want to seriously extend their capability through Pentax offerings. There's profit in glass and Hoya are profit driven!
Richard,
In no way do I mean to imply Pentax should stop manufacturing or developing the type of special lenses they are famous for. The exact opposite is true. Why should they waste there time developing pedestrian lenses that have already been done well by other manufacturers. Adding these lenses will in no way dilute the line, just expand it. It would also free up R & D to concentrate on the Pentax "Special" type lenses.

In regards to Hoya, they are selling glass to all of the OEM's also. It would stand to reason they could care less if someone buys a Tamron lens, a Tamron OEM Pentax lens, or a Pentax made lens for their Pentax camera as long as there is Hoya glass in it. When selling OEM like Hoya is you make the same amount of profit regardless of who is buying it.

Ken
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