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02-04-2015, 02:06 PM   #226
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
If they are invested in lenses, they might stay with Pentax. And like I said, there's good but lower quality options like the Tamron 70-200.

Based on the specs, I think it is possible that Ricoh is trying to come up with a lens that is actually superior to what is out there. That would get people's attention.
Based on the independent tests I saw, the Tamron 70-200 is just as good optically as the Nikon and Canon offerings. The build quality isn't as good.... so Pentax is not going to displace the Tamron as the best low budget item. For people who want the heavy duty pro lens you can use for a hammer, the Pentax will be the item. The guy who wants to shoot his son's basketball game in the local gym, the Tamron will still be the goto lens. Most of us just don't need that kind of build quality.

Like the 645z, the Pentax FF will be based on current Pentax K-3 technology. There is no way they are going to produce a D4 or 1D type body with all those custom chips in the AF and Exposuree system. A Pentax 24 mp FF using the current K-3 processing engine, giving them 8 frames per second would be awesome. The K-3 has convinced me... 24 Mp is a lot.

IN fact if I could get 20 Mp with 15 EV dynamic range and 1.5 stops of additional noise reduction.... clean to 3200 ISO, that would be awesome.


Last edited by normhead; 02-04-2015 at 02:26 PM.
02-04-2015, 02:17 PM   #227
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In some way the Pentax offering will be different enough - it will be an alternative to C & N & S (dSLR). It has always seemed to me that 'Pentax by Ricoh' has offered a value based on feature level at a price, not just price, but the price was a bit lower.

If they price at the same street level as the competitors but maintain the features / price relationship, wouldn't that imply their lenses are BETTER than the same-priced competitor offerings?
"wouldn't that imply their lenses are BETTER .." we will have to wait and see for it, but for for someone who wants to choose a FF system from C, N, S, and now P (and don't have any old K lenses), why would they choose P, a late comer in the game? you know, the current fishes in the K-mount pool is not a lot.

QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
So you want Canon / Nikon quality at half price? Not going to happen. This is a pro level lens for a pro level camera, if you want cheap stay with APS-C. I am delighted at the price. If it had come out at $1,000 everyone would say it was just a consumer lens, because it would be. Canon and Nikon equivalents are the same price, why on earth would Pentax be cheaper? If you want third party cheap gear then buy Sigma or Tamron. If you want OEM FF gear this is the cost of admission.

Ricoh says they want to be a player, you don't do that with cheap junk, you do it by setting the bar high.
"So you want Canon / Nikon quality at half price?" - please don't put words in others mouth and start your argument...
first, we all know that Pentax is small player in dslr market, now that doesn't mean they can't charge high price (see Leica), but unfortunately that is never the tradition of Pentax (I'm sure you won't pay Leica price for Pentax gear too). On the other hand, Pentax always win in terms of value, offering more in same or less price than competitors. If you don't have any K lenses, and you are looking into a system, offering lenses that priced at same as two very long and big companies (C & N), with your first FF DSLR, I don't think will make the brand look very attractive (plus, whether true or false, the perception is Pentax didn't have good AF). How do you compete the two giants C & N? Sony hit it with their very very reasonably and aggressively priced 3 A7 series cameras (and now in their 2nd generations of bodies), attracting many over. With these rumored pricing, I am not sure how Pentax can attract new buyers, except some native K-mount users (very small pool, sad to say). That is my point.

Now I have plenty of primes in K-mount (from the FA ltds, FA35, FA*85, several 50mm (FA, F), DFA100) so I am excited to see if they have a FF body (now seem very likely). But at the same time, I would eventually like to have a good 70-200 and 24-70 zoom, and with those price, I will have to re-think if I really want to go "all in" with Pentax (since it will cost the same for choosing C or N, or even S). you see what I mean? and without attracting new users, and targeting only the current K-mount users to 'upgrade', probably not going to cut it.

The reason I choose Pentax when I first decide to get a DSLR is because of value: offering more with less money. As far as I know, that is how the majority Pentaxian chose Pentax when they first started.

So let see how this all play out. It is indeed a very exciting year for Pentax users.
02-04-2015, 02:23 PM   #228
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Based on the independent tests I saw, the Tamron 70-200 is just as good optically as the Nikon and Canon offerings. The build quality isn't as good.... so Pentax is not going to displace the Tamron as the best low budget item. For people who want the heavy duty pro lens you can use for a hammer, the Pentax will be the item. The guy who wants to shoot his son's basketball game in the local gym, the Tamron will still be the goto lens. Most of us just don't need that kind of build quality.

Like the 645z, the Pentax FF will be based on current Pentax K-3 technology. There is no way they are going to produce a D4 or 1D type body with all those custom chips in the AF and Exposuree system. A Pentax 24 mp FF using the current K-3 processing engine, giving them 8 frames per second would be awesome. The K-3 has convinced me... 24 Mp is a lot.

IN fact if I could get 20 Mp with better dynamic range and 1.5 stops of additional noise reduction.... clean to 6400 ISO like the 645z, that would be awesome.
i wonder if the pentax 70 200 is actually a rebranded tamron
02-04-2015, 02:28 PM   #229
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QuoteOriginally posted by maiz Quote
i wonder if the pentax 70 200 is actually a rebranded tamron
No. It isn't.

100% Pentax Pro-Grade lens.

02-04-2015, 02:31 PM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
"wouldn't that imply their lenses are BETTER .." we will have to wait and see for it, but for for someone who wants to choose a FF system from C, N, S, and now P (and don't have any old K lenses), why would they choose P, a late comer in the game? you know, the current fishes in the K-mount pool is not a lot.
They'll be different in some way. They'll be an alternative to CaNikon, not just another CaNikon with different letters painted on the flash hump.

I am highly confident people will choose Pentax because they want the alternative, whatever it is.
02-04-2015, 02:39 PM   #231
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You forgot LF lee that Sony has had quite cheap FF body for sale, but their class is not so cheap. Compared to C,N, and now P.
K-mount pool might not be large, and people who will eventually go for FF is not huge, but so what. It can be bigger. Biggest reason for many sales men selling only N,C and now S for what. They are is PR, money and PR. Reasoning, they are Pro camera brand...here take this rebel... So it is not only FF thingy. It is money.
02-04-2015, 02:42 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
why would they choose P, a late comer in the game? you know, the current fishes in the K-mount pool is not a lot.
Pentax always win in terms of value
In discussions about APS-C cameras between C and N supporters at another Forum, I can almost always come up with a solution from P that rates higher than their choices by whatever measure they are using but still costs less than their choices. The sensors for current Pentax cameras actually look quite good when compared to Canikon products. If Pentax can continue that tradition in FF ...
02-04-2015, 03:10 PM   #233
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
Direct Drive DC Torque Motors | Kollmorgen | Brush DC Electric Motors

A different type of DC motor,looks like the type in the Pentax patent.

Let's pray that's it's competitive with Canikon's ultrasonic ring motors.

02-04-2015, 03:35 PM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Based on the independent tests I saw, the Tamron 70-200 is just as good optically as the Nikon and Canon offerings.
If you are talking about the 1400 dollar VC version that has never been available for Pentax, then yes, it's as good as Canon and Nikon optically (reportedly). But I was talking about the older 700 dollar version that is availiable in K mount. It's probably enough for some people (it would be good enough for me, as I don't make any money off of photography).
02-04-2015, 03:38 PM   #235
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The only sad part about the 70-200 for me is that it's a magnification of 0.12x. I wish it was higher so I could just sell my macro lens to fund it XD
02-04-2015, 03:41 PM   #236
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UK price 1849 LINK
02-04-2015, 03:42 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
Let's pray that's it's competitive with Canikon's ultrasonic ring motors.
Even so, the multiple focus options and limiters make it seem like fast focusing is a priority with this and the 150-450.
02-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #238
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
The only sad part about the 70-200 for me is that it's a magnification of 0.12x. I wish it was higher so I could just sell my macro lens to fund it XD

Tammy call theirs a macro lens, with a magnification ratio of 1:3.


But when I bought it, I didn't sell my 90mm f2.8 macro - they're just very different beasts.
02-04-2015, 03:48 PM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Tammy call theirs a macro lens, with a magnification ratio of 1:3.


But when I bought it, I didn't sell my 90mm f2.8 macro - they're just very different beasts.
I have the Tamron, and that's what I'm referring to. I don't use my Sigma 105 F2.8 macro enough, and I've shot plenty with my Tamron at max magnification where it is sharp enough to crop to my required size. I was hoping the DFA would be 1:3 as well...

...but mainly because it would give me some leverage in reducing the cost by selling a lens
02-04-2015, 04:10 PM   #240
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
the current fishes in the K-mount pool is not a lot.
If the FF camera is based on technology that is used in other Pentax products, it doesn't take many fishes to break even. Ricoh did the same thing with the 645Z and it was very successful in the relatively tiny MF pool, so executives have a model to use to justify adding a FF camera to their lineup. I really don't think Ricoh has any plans to steal Nikon and Canon FF customers, but they would like to keep getting business from existing Pentax users, of which there are enough world-wide to keep the camera division operating at a profit.
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