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02-04-2015, 04:16 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
we all know that Pentax is small player in dslr market, now that doesn't mean they can't charge high price (see Leica), but unfortunately that is never the tradition of Pentax (I'm sure you won't pay Leica price for Pentax gear too). On the other hand, Pentax always win in terms of value, offering more in same or less price than competitors. If you don't have any K lenses, and you are looking into a system, offering lenses that priced at same as two very long and big companies (C & N), with your first FF DSLR, I don't think will make the brand look very attractive (plus, whether true or false, the perception is Pentax didn't have good AF). How do you compete the two giants C & N?
The same way they compete in the APS-C category. Sorry, but I do not understand your point. Pentax was for a time a "value" brand. But it is not Pentax now it is Ricoh. Surely that alone changes the dynamic?

No one can answer your question except for themselves. For me, I have handled Canon 5d and Nikon D800. I don't want either because they do not feel right in my hand. When I hold the new Pentax I will decide if it feels right. If it does then I will buy, simple. Price is immaterial to me, and within reason is immaterial for most FF purchasers. If you are shooting for money and NEED FF then your camera gear expenses are a minor portion of the budget, get what you need to do the job. If you are an enthusiast and WANT FF then it is a hobby, spend whatever you feel comfortable with.

And I was not trying to start an argument. The post I wrote first (and then deleted) was trying to start one. And was nasty and sarcastic as well, which is why I deleted it.

02-04-2015, 04:32 PM   #242
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Now listed on the Pentax USA page:

PENTAX - HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW

Even listing 'What's in the Box' :

- Lens Cap O-LC77
- Tripod Mount O-TM80
- Lens Case HS110-230
- Lens Hood PH-RBM77
- Rear Lens Cap B
02-04-2015, 04:58 PM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
The guy who wants to shoot his son's basketball game in the local gym, the Tamron will still be the goto lens
I think you meant this as a general example, but after watching my son play basketball from 7 years old to 18 years old, I'll make a specific response. I never saw parents shooting DSLRs with big lenses at basketball games. Football and fastball, once in a while. Lots of high schools have a 5D and a 70-200 lens (always Canon brand) that either a photography student or a teacher will shoot with at games, and sometimes the staff photographer for the local newspaper shows up (with a more expensive version of the same kit), but parents quickly get frustrated trying to get good photographs of their child, partly because poor lighting and the challenge of getting in-focus shots defeats consumer level equipment, and partly because it is impossible to run your camera and follow the game at the same time. IQ is the least of anyone's concerns.

The other point I'll make is that a 70-200 isn't the ideal focal range on an APS-C body for sports within the confines of a gym. Assuming you are shooting from the floor, 50-135 would be much better, because if the action is in the closest quadrant of the court, 70mm is too long to get more than one player in the frame (and who wants a picture of a player standing by himself) and even shots of players under the basket at the opposite end of the court need minimal cropping at 135mm. I did some testing of my own with the 18-135 a year ago at a high school tournament and I didn't need to go wider than 47mm, which was too bad because it meant I couldn't get faster than f5.0. I'm not recommending the 18-135 for indoor sports, even a constant f4 would be better, but without top-notch AF from your lens and body combined, a faster lens isn't going to make much of a difference. Very challenging sport to photograph, volleyball is more predictable, soccer and North American style football don't change direction and distance as quickly as basketball.
02-04-2015, 05:01 PM   #244
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$2300 at Adorama for pre-order. About what was predicted.

02-04-2015, 05:41 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
I think you meant this as a general example, but after watching my son play basketball from 7 years old to 18 years old, I'll make a specific response. I never saw parents shooting DSLRs with big lenses at basketball games. Football and fastball, once in a while. Lots of high schools have a 5D and a 70-200 lens (always Canon brand) that either a photography student or a teacher will shoot with at games, and sometimes the staff photographer for the local newspaper shows up (with a more expensive version of the same kit), but parents quickly get frustrated trying to get good photographs of their child, partly because poor lighting and the challenge of getting in-focus shots defeats consumer level equipment, and partly because it is impossible to run your camera and follow the game at the same time. IQ is the least of anyone's concerns.

The other point I'll make is that a 70-200 isn't the ideal focal range on an APS-C body for sports within the confines of a gym. Assuming you are shooting from the floor, 50-135 would be much better, because if the action is in the closest quadrant of the court, 70mm is too long to get more than one player in the frame (and who wants a picture of a player standing by himself) and even shots of players under the basket at the opposite end of the court need minimal cropping at 135mm. I did some testing of my own with the 18-135 a year ago at a high school tournament and I didn't need to go wider than 47mm, which was too bad because it meant I couldn't get faster than f5.0. I'm not recommending the 18-135 for indoor sports, even a constant f4 would be better, but without top-notch AF from your lens and body combined, a faster lens isn't going to make much of a difference. Very challenging sport to photograph, volleyball is more predictable, soccer and North American style football don't change direction and distance as quickly as basketball.
Back in the day, when my daughter played Jr Hi and Frosh basketball, I photographed from the stands using a (film) Canon EOS camera with a 70mm-300mm lens, normally using ISO 200 film. Maybe I was the exception and unique.
02-04-2015, 06:07 PM   #246
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Better start doing those arm curls to cope with the new 70-200. The Pentax is 1.76kg without hood or collar, and a full 2kg with both

By comparison:
Canon: 1.49kg
Nikon: 1.54kg
Sony: 1.3kg
02-04-2015, 06:12 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by twitch Quote
Better start doing those arm curls to cope with the new 70-200. The Pentax is 1.76kg without hood or collar, and a full 2kg with both

By comparison:
Canon: 1.49kg
Nikon: 1.54kg
Sony: 1.3kg
I thought my FA*80-200/2.8 was hefty at 1.51 kg, and that has a zoom drive motor and a solid build!

---------- Post added 5th Feb 2015 at 11:14 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
$2300 at Adorama for pre-order. About what was predicted.
Considering the FA*80-200/2.8 goes for around $1,500 secondhand, that price seems reasonable for the supposed IQ and build.
02-04-2015, 08:33 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Back in the day, when my daughter played Jr Hi and Frosh basketball, I photographed from the stands using a (film) Canon EOS camera with a 70mm-300mm lens, normally using ISO 200 film. Maybe I was the exception and unique.
Nope. I photograph my son at soccer with my K5iis + Tamron 70-200/2.8 every game with the occassional addition of my 55-300 and am looking forward to using my new K3 + 150-500 too. I am seldom alone with my dSLR either.

02-04-2015, 08:41 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I thought my FA*80-200/2.8 was hefty at 1.51 kg, and that has a zoom drive motor and a solid build!

---------- Post added 5th Feb 2015 at 11:14 AM ----------



Considering the FA*80-200/2.8 goes for around $1,500 secondhand, that price seems reasonable for the supposed IQ and build.
Indeed. I am very keen to see comparisons made between these two lenses. I expect improved IQ in the younger of the two, but how much is the question.

I think it unlikely that there would be massive IQ improvement as the FA* is already very good. At the USD$2200 price tag I also see current FA*80-200/2.8 prices to remain firm if not trend up a little given the announcement of FF.
02-04-2015, 10:32 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
he stated at f2.8, the 60-250 starts at f4. so no wonder the canon walks over it. Its apples and pears
Err.. he also said at f/4 so my point was valid.
02-04-2015, 10:36 PM - 1 Like   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Now listed on the Pentax USA page:

PENTAX - HD PENTAX-D FA* 70-200mm F2.8ED DC AW

Even listing 'What's in the Box' :

- Lens Cap O-LC77
- Tripod Mount O-TM80
- Lens Case HS110-230
- Lens Hood PH-RBM77
- Rear Lens Cap B
QuoteQuote:
Available for backorder Ships within 10 business days
Coming from the PWS, I wonder if this estimate is like the conversion from human to dog years?
02-04-2015, 10:36 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Interesting. It's a similar story with the Nikon 70-200 f4 vs their 70-200 f2.8. The Nikon f4 is not only a sharper lens (according to DxO, and many users), but it's also lighter, more compact, and more than $1000 cheaper.
My NIkon 70-200 VRII cost AU$2970 and a DA*60-250 can be had direct from CRKennedy here for AU$1369. That's a whole different ballgame as far as prices go - I'd have loved it if the newer lenses (Nikon 70-200 F4 & Tamron update) had been available at the time I bought it. It's still a great lens although expensive.

Last edited by bossa; 02-04-2015 at 10:48 PM.
02-05-2015, 03:10 AM - 1 Like   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
If they are invested in lenses, they might stay with Pentax. And like I said, there's good but lower quality options like the Tamron 70-200.

Based on the specs, I think it is possible that Ricoh is trying to come up with a lens that is actually superior to what is out there. That would get people's attention.
The truth is those people not willing to pay for quality are also those shouting loudest for Pentax to deliver their wants.!

Yet those same people are also least likely to part with any money if Pentax delivered.

Conversely those people who use the tools to deliver a product are most likely willing to part with substantial cash if it enhance their ability to deliver their own products.

Sports shooters appreciate the requirements of their craft and are equally willing to pay the entry fee, Both these new lens are Thoroughbred Sports Optics with features and spec to match providing Pentax will deliver a body (or the k3 can) to match their performance promise then photographers will follow the curve.

This is a better commercial model for Pentax as true sports photogs tend to be hard on their equipment and brand changes not really a concern as when Nikon delivered one of the best sports solutions Canon market share followed suit.

If Pentax can deliver Best in class performance sales will follow whatever price point, Whereas a cheap FF body with substandard performance will not sell because those willing to pay wont be interested and those after cheap will still find the entry cost to high.!
02-05-2015, 03:16 AM - 2 Likes   #254
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If you look at the cost per g of lens, Pentax is clearly very inexpensive!
02-05-2015, 03:32 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
If you look at the cost per g of lens, Pentax is clearly very inexpensive!
Exactly, and people need to remember that the 70-200 is a PRO lense.
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