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04-18-2015, 01:19 PM   #886
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Did i ask for a critique? I guess you felt you just had to point these things out to people who don't know.

My point still stands. I can tell how sharp an lens is with sharpening or not. I don't need folks dumbing it down to see what's there. I had no intention of turning this into a discussion of sharpening. As I have explained many times, I owe you clowns nothing. I'm posting a few imagers for you relevant to the topic. If you can't take them for what they were offered for, I don't care. I am not going to do perfect PP on every image just to make your life easier. I don't get every image I use perfect for display on the net. My philosophy is share your work. I get really annoyed at those who snipe from the wings, without offering anything of relevance.

And whining "I can't see what's sharp because the images are over sharpened." Please, do you actually stand behind that nonsense?

My advice, go to the 300mm plus club, and comment on everyone's sharpening, maybe one of them will care. I'm telling you, whether you think, or even if an image is over sharpened doesn't matter to me one iota. Its a web forum, you get what you pay for. I will not lift one teeny tiny little finger to change my import presets, unless I'm so inclined. You have absolutely no right to ask for better. It what I post isn't useful to you. Too friggin bad. I don't care. I don't run my life for your pleasure.

Now I posted some images showing my experience with the 60-250 and TC. If you have something to add to the topic... but oh no, lets comment on someone's post processing. I don't come here for you clowns. Please put me on ignore. Its not like you're posting stuff that interests me in the slightest.

We were trying to understand why two folks are having trouble with their 1.4 TC on a DA*300. Post processing was not the topic,until some one claimed they were so incompetent that my post processing interfered with their evaluation of the images.
A good lense doesn't need sharpening if not heavily cropped and to me you used post processing to try to compensate for the lighting, cropping etc. Maybe many would haven't done better in the same situation as you taking this shoot but this doesn't sell the lense.

This is what several people say to you over several threads. Your images are interresting but are taken in challenging conditions and so can't really show what the lense are capable of doing in ideal conditions. They are just not great candidate for this kind of threads (but are really appropriate for actual lens club or show your photos threads). Typically without post processing you crop looked soft (but natural).

When somebody say it, maybe not in the most diplomatic way I admit, you conclude you rushed your post processing and didn't care to make the picture look good. That's quite paradoxal to present a photo that should standup to show the best one can do and say after you didn't care if it would look good or not.

The first timautin shoot look time better because the lighting is better, because the bird has more colors/contrast and because the subject filled the frame so no cropping. His picture could be used as an ad to sell the lense.

To me this illustrate the proverb that say that if your picture don't look good enough it is because your are not close enough.

04-18-2015, 01:32 PM   #887
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
A good lense doesn't need sharpening if not heavily cropped and to me you used post processing to try to compensate for the lighting, cropping etc. Maybe many would haven't done better in the same situation as you taking this shoot but this doesn't sell the lense.
Your absolutely full of yourself. I can't even be bothered to respond. And i wasn't trying to sell the lens. the issue was, is it as good with the TC. I picked a couple of images where based on my viewing on a monitor 2700 pixels wide at pixel peeping mode, the TC image was sharper than the cropped image with no TC. Now if you all want to complain about the sharpening fine... have at her. Hope you don' mind if I don't care.

I'm not going to get into all this doctrinaire BS everyone is posting. It would be a full time job.

If you aren't lazy full of yourself morons post a few images to illustrate the points you're making. I could have done the same lazy ass things you guys do. . I could have not checked out my images looking for a few that showed what I was talking about, put them up on line for all to see. I could have just shot my mouth off like everyone else.

I can sit back and snipe as good as the next guy. Ya'll are just way too funny.

My take on this, if you don't want to believe that it might possible to get more subject resolution with a TC than with an enlarged crop, challenge the sample images sharpening. Don't say anything where you might actually have to post some images that prove your point. Argue about sharpening. Great tack. But, don't be thinking I can't see what's going on here.

Have a nice day.

Last edited by normhead; 04-18-2015 at 01:41 PM.
04-18-2015, 01:39 PM   #888
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, I really enjoy myself... I hope everyone else thinks I'm as funny as i do. Some people think I'm dead serious when I take off.
Dude. You still interact with most of the people in this thread?
04-18-2015, 01:46 PM   #889
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Dude. You still interact with most of the people in this thread?
Fewer and fewer all the time...

Really enjoy watching where some of these posts take me.... if you get creative, you can write a paragraph pointing out the nuances of a single line. Some people write novels... I explore the inane.

I mean that in the nicest way.

04-18-2015, 01:58 PM - 1 Like   #890
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I'm not going to get into all this doctrinaire BS everyone is posting. It would be a full time job.
When somebody challenge you you can assume your are still right... Even through even some previous president of United States admited himself that he wasn't likely to be right more than half of the time.

When a few challenge you, that can still be the case. When it is everyone (by your own words) you may very well still right, but the odds are far lower. Couting that many on theses forum are also photographers even pro ones for some and experience in wildlife photography (not my case) this even reduce futher the odds, even through you might still be right and everyone wrong.

There might be a possibility to learn something from this repeating situation and it might not be that we are all clown that decided to make a martyr out of you... While it is certainly possible, I admit.

I dare say that this is not my intention. i think you contribution are very valuables overall but I think that sometime you might not be perfect. Nobody is. Remember what an old president of united states said ! There no need to say everybody is a clown each time we don't agree with you.

Last edited by Nicolas06; 04-18-2015 at 02:10 PM.
04-18-2015, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #891
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To go back to the thread: As for TC increasing quality: Yes of course. Doesn't mean timautin didn"t have an issue with his. Maybe a faulty sample, many added the advice to remove SR while on tripod and I think he is going to try that. Maybe he should have considered to close the lens a bit more too.

As for great samples TC, I think there quite a few on this forums on the proper threads. For example this one: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/257619-pentax-hd-pentax-da...lens-club.html

The best shoot of this thread are (to me) clearly the serie by vcollerp with it 560 + TC 1.4: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/257619-pentax-hd-pentax-da...ml#post2942355 But there quite a few good DA*300 shoots with TC.
04-18-2015, 02:41 PM - 2 Likes   #892
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In fact this thread is about the new 70-200 DFA* HD ...
04-18-2015, 03:05 PM   #893
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Did i ask for a critique? I guess you felt you just had to point these things out to people who don't know.

My point still stands. I can tell how sharp an lens is with sharpening or not. I don't need folks dumbing it down to see what's there. I had no intention of turning this into a discussion of sharpening. As I have explained many times, I owe you clowns nothing. I'm posting a few imagers for you relevant to the topic. If you can't take them for what they were offered for, I don't care. I am not going to do perfect PP on every image just to make your life easier. I don't get every image I use perfect for display on the net. My philosophy is share your work. I get really annoyed at those who snipe from the wings, without offering anything of relevance.

And whining "I can't see what's sharp because the images are over sharpened." Please, do you actually stand behind that nonsense?

My advice, go to the 300mm plus club, and comment on everyone's sharpening, maybe one of them will care. I'm telling you, whether you think, or even if an image is over sharpened doesn't matter to me one iota. Its a web forum, you get what you pay for. I will not lift one teeny tiny little finger to change my import presets, unless I'm so inclined. You have absolutely no right to ask for better. It what I post isn't useful to you. Too friggin bad. I don't care. I don't run my life for your pleasure.

Now I posted some images showing my experience with the 60-250 and TC. If you have something to add to the topic... but oh no, lets comment on someone's post processing. I don't come here for you clowns. Please put me on ignore. Its not like you're posting stuff that interests me in the slightest.

We were trying to understand why two folks are having trouble with their 1.4 TC on a DA*300. Post processing was not the topic,until some one claimed they were so incompetent that my post processing interfered with their evaluation of the images.
I am sorry you feel this way. If I were in your place, I would have displayed the original images, because that shows what the lenses have done, independently of what I can add later (*); but that is just me. People would point out that the images could be improved with post processing; but that is just them. I have taken photographs for nearly sixty years because I enjoy doing that; I am always distressed when discussions emerge that cut into enjoyment. My original comment about sharpness was directed at your apparent sorrow about sharpness lacking; I meant to be encouraging, and I am sorry that you felt under attack.

(*) and, yes, I know that my choice of settings has already affected things, but everyone can see that in the EXIF, and they will second-guess that also.

04-18-2015, 03:08 PM   #894
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QuoteOriginally posted by Glorfindelrb Quote
In fact this thread is about the new 70-200 DFA* HD ...
Yep sorry, I will start a fresh thread to keep this one clean (I will put the link here when it will be done).
04-18-2015, 03:09 PM - 1 Like   #895
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Are you sure?

QuoteOriginally posted by Glorfindelrb Quote
In fact this thread is about the new 70-200 DFA* HD ...
This is way most of thads go at here..not sure what comment 'popcorn' ment couple senteces back. But this may be it. (Sorry for my bad english)

One thing what most of people can not argue is taste. Way normhead is making his shot is way he likes them. And way some people looks at pictures is their peronal preferences. Nothing more or less. But some how it all comes down here.

I like his shots. And he really can nail shots. Also the point of having longer glass/shorter and gettin closer is very true. It really does male differense rather than optics them self.

But still. This thread should be about dfa* 70-200. And we all are waiting for that.
04-18-2015, 03:24 PM   #896
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Are you sure?



This is way most of thads go at here..not sure what comment 'popcorn' ment couple senteces back. But this may be it. (Sorry for my bad english)

One thing what most of people can not argue is taste. Way normhead is making his shot is way he likes them. And way some people looks at pictures is their peronal preferences. Nothing more or less. But some how it all comes down here.

I like his shots. And he really can nail shots. Also the point of having longer glass/shorter and gettin closer is very true. It really does male differense rather than optics them self.

But still. This thread should be about dfa* 70-200. And we all are waiting for that.
And hopefully a few with the 1.4 TC.
04-18-2015, 03:50 PM - 1 Like   #897
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And hopefully a few with the 1.4 TC.
When I saw 'popcorn' I immediately sat back for the movie

I tend to agree with all comments here in various ways, but I actually align myself with norm the most. Post processing is a tool that is equally as valuable as the lens itself. If PPing can sharpen the image and make it better, then do it!!! The idea that PPing is not cool is absurd - in any case, sharpening an image that cannot be sharpened will tell you very quickly that your lens 'tool' needs to be retired - point is not all lenses can be sharpened up.

At the end it is all about the image. If it looks good in all respects then no complaints. Only purists would be pedantic enough to emphasise the camera gear side of the debate.

As for the 70-200 FF lens I am particularly keen to learn of its differences with my 80-200 FA*, particularly in the PPing department. If images taken with my 80-200 FA* can be improved using PPing to meet the standards produced by the new DFA*70-200 then I will not change over to the new. If not then I might consider the new tool (but that will still be subject to a cost benefit analysis).
04-18-2015, 04:08 PM   #898
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
One thing what most of people can not argue is taste. Way normhead is making his shot is way he likes them. And way some people looks at pictures is their peronal preferences. Nothing more or less.
Absolutely. Nobody was arguing about personal taste. When you sharpen an image to the point of introducing sharpening artifact, then you have by definition over sharpened the image. You can still like the look of the over sharpened image. That isn't what we were talking about. Often there is a difference between what might be esthetically pleasing and what is technically correct. The topic was dealing with the sharpness of a lens. If you have to sharpen to the point of introducing artifacts and screwing up the background bokeh, then something is wrong.... Technically. Esthetically you can smear oil on you lens and take pictures if that is the look that you like.
04-18-2015, 04:15 PM   #899
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And hopefully a few with the 1.4 TC.
Why are critics ganging on Norm? Don't get the motives. Also creates a Do Not Post warning for all of us lesser skilled togs. Norm's photos are very good to exceptional. What is up with this attack?
04-18-2015, 04:30 PM - 1 Like   #900
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QuoteOriginally posted by waterfall Quote
Why are critics ganging on Norm? Don't get the motives. Also creates a Do Not Post warning for all of us lesser skilled togs. Norm's photos are very good to exceptional. What is up with this attack?
The thread is about lenses and their technical qualities. Sharpness. Using pictures that have been over sharpened in post tells you nothing about the lens. It make the bokeh look bad and adds white halos to the image. If your goal is to duplicate the look of over sharpened Canon OOC JPEGs, then they would great, but if the goal is to show the sharpness of the lens, then they are not great. Lot's of people like the look of over sharpened Canon JPEGs. Its very popular, so I won't argue the esthetics of it. Nobody is ganging up on Norm. It wouldn't matter who posted those. The reaction would be the same.
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