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04-21-2015, 01:26 PM   #961
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Ya, I managed to get through the review without a negative reaction, it was just a review with an MTF chart... Mean really, how can you say a review is less than critical when they do an MTF chart and compare it with a competitor? I can list on one hand the number of reviews I've seen that do that.

04-21-2015, 01:32 PM   #962
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, I managed to get through the review without a negative reaction, it was just a review with an MTF chart... Mean really, how can you say a review is less than critical when they do an MTF chart and compare it with a competitor? I can list on one hand the number of reviews I've seen that do that.
If there is an issue, it is Pentax's issue, for sending a lens before the final firmware is done. The biggest knock on Pentax over the years has been slow auto focus and this lens and the 150-450 were supposed to fix that. Hard to say, based on this review, how much better it is than we have seen in the past. Probably too soon to say. I have to imagine that the K3 and K-S2 will get some kind of firmware upgrade to tell them how to deal with the new lenses. Maybe it will help, maybe not.
04-21-2015, 01:42 PM   #963
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Mmm wanted to check MakerNotes with Exiftool but it seems CaptureOne did strip them (or this is normal in Jpeg export?).
Too bad, it would have given up the firmware rev (AFAIK).

---------- Post added 21-04-15 at 21:45 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If there is an issue, it is Pentax's issue, for sending a lens before the final firmware is done. The biggest knock on Pentax over the years has been slow auto focus and this lens and the 150-450 were supposed to fix that. Hard to say, based on this review, how much better it is than we have seen in the past. Probably too soon to say. I have to imagine that the K3 and K-S2 will get some kind of firmware upgrade to tell them how to deal with the new lenses. Maybe it will help, maybe not.
Do they state Ricoh gave'ed one or did they 'stumble upon' one ?
If Ricoh gave it, did Ricoh specify they should update firmware?
In either case, did they upgrade the firmware or not?

Valid questions IMO but not sure this will put an end to the discussion
04-21-2015, 01:48 PM   #964
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm wanted to check MakerNotes with Exiftool but it seems CaptureOne did strip them (or this is normal in Jpeg export?).
Too bad, it would have given up the firmware rev (AFAIK).

---------- Post added 21-04-15 at 21:45 ----------



Do they state Ricoh gave'ed one or did they 'stumble upon' one ?
If Ricoh gave it, did Ricoh specify they should update firmware?
In either case, did they upgrade the firmware or not?

Valid questions IMO but not sure this will put an end to the discussion
I would assume that Pentax sent it to them. It certainly isn't on store shelves at this point and Kenspro is in Norway, so they couldn't have borrowed his copy...

04-21-2015, 03:34 PM   #965
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Here is a big problem. What we want? Good reviews, or honest reviews?

I also think that the review is good in most of his part, and the pictures very good. The only think that they can do more was to specify that this test was done with a camera which is not still updated with the last firmware for this lens, if this is the case.
For me the firmware thing is pure speculation. I would expect if Pentax manage thing seriously tha they send a K3 with everything setup correctly together with the lense for the testing.

If it is not the case, I don't get why ephoto ezine should care? If I was in their situation, I would suppose that if no notice was provided that they need to test with this firmware that it is not important. I would also assume that even on an older camera like a K5-II the lense should work correctly.

There may be lot of people that will buy the lense and would never know they should upgrade their firmware and many other that are afraid to perform such operation, some other finally that will use the lense on an older body.

So the non update firmware situation would still be a very relevant review.

We insist on this kind of issue because we want to conclude that Pentax is better and so if the reviewer say there some focus issue, it must be the reviewer that made an error or something like that and for sure not a design problem. Kind of funny.
04-21-2015, 04:00 PM   #966
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The analysis (a comment under a photo taken at 230mm with another lens) is a bit light to conclude anything btw.
04-21-2015, 10:35 PM   #967
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
For me the firmware thing is pure speculation. I would expect if Pentax manage thing seriously tha they send a K3 with everything setup correctly together with the lense for the testing.

If it is not the case, I don't get why ephoto ezine should care? If I was in their situation, I would suppose that if no notice was provided that they need to test with this firmware that it is not important. I would also assume that even on an older camera like a K5-II the lense should work correctly.

There may be lot of people that will buy the lense and would never know they should upgrade their firmware and many other that are afraid to perform such operation, some other finally that will use the lense on an older body.

So the non update firmware situation would still be a very relevant review.

We insist on this kind of issue because we want to conclude that Pentax is better and so if the reviewer say there some focus issue, it must be the reviewer that made an error or something like that and for sure not a design problem. Kind of funny.
But we dunno that and I think Ricoh is perfectly able to drop a little sheet of paper in the lens packaging to warn about a firmware upgrade.
I don't think they will but it's not as if it was either stupid or hard to do.
04-21-2015, 11:44 PM - 1 Like   #968
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But we dunno that and I think Ricoh is perfectly able to drop a little sheet of paper in the lens packaging to warn about a firmware upgrade.
I don't think they will but it's not as if it was either stupid or hard to do.
I would agree but it is just that it is not the reviewer fault.

In fact using the lenses provided by Ricoh could be assumed to unprofessionnal. Instead I would expect a good reviewer to get their lenses independantly in same condition a normal photographer would do. It would be logical to test several samples of the lense with 3 sample you can be reasonably sure you got at least a good sample or that the quality control is really bad, with a sample of ten you would be able to say something in the review from the quality control... If half of lenses have problem or none this is greatly different.

But this mean that only reviewers like lenstip would be able to do that.

04-22-2015, 12:30 AM   #969
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
But this mean that only reviewers like lenstip would be able to do that.
No, they said tests would take too much time and work they could put into another lens testing. They are not even willing to re-test lenses if they suspect they could get a subpar sample. They say if we could get it anybody could (they get most lenses from stores, not from manufacturers) and if it's sub-standard that says something too... I argued with them many times, cause I think the review to be useful, should give you a reference of expected/standard quality, you can compare your copy to.
The only website that do multiple sample tests is lensrentals.com, AFAIK.
04-22-2015, 12:42 AM   #970
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Look, lets not go crazy about what some bloggers say about preproduction lenses with suboptimal firmware. I'll trust my eyes til a certain Mr Cicala gets a hold of them. He's a professional...AND a blogger
04-22-2015, 04:20 AM   #971
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I would agree but it is just that it is not the reviewer fault.

In fact using the lenses provided by Ricoh could be assumed to unprofessionnal. Instead I would expect a good reviewer to get their lenses independantly in same condition a normal photographer would do. It would be logical to test several samples of the lense with 3 sample you can be reasonably sure you got at least a good sample or that the quality control is really bad, with a sample of ten you would be able to say something in the review from the quality control... If half of lenses have problem or none this is greatly different.

But this mean that only reviewers like lenstip would be able to do that.
But we do NOT know that.
It may be 100% true. It may be completely wrong.
We do NOT know if the sample was given by Ricoh and IMO, any review should mention if either the lens is lent by someone or given/lent by the manufacturer. Basic objectivity.

---------- Post added 22-04-15 at 12:22 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
No, they said tests would take too much time and work they could put into another lens testing. They are not even willing to re-test lenses if they suspect they could get a subpar sample. They say if we could get it anybody could (they get most lenses from stores, not from manufacturers) and if it's sub-standard that says something too... I argued with them many times, cause I think the review to be useful, should give you a reference of expected/standard quality, you can compare your copy to.
The only website that do multiple sample tests is lensrentals.com, AFAIK.
Which is a bit of black/white without any nuance or subtlety. Probably because it is easier. And lame.
Retesting is perfectly OK and advisable when you source from a different place AND you test a second time.
The third time, something's obviously wrong.

Even Photozone did a couple retests.
04-22-2015, 10:50 AM   #972
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The thing is a reviewer don't review lenses because they want to review lenses. Their goal is not to publish something of high scientific relevancy.

We speak of websites that depend on advertisement. As long it is good enough and visitors comes it increase their revenue. So for sure they will review the most popular lenses/camera/whatever because this is the most likely thing their visitor want.

There already the need to pay the reviewer than depending of what they do may spend a few hours to a few days working. I understand that DxO for example is providing the measurements for more and more websites so the reviewers are outsourcing and in the end they just need to write an article that look the same for all lenses anyway, take a few shoots to include, add the DxO tests results and they are done. With some experience this may be only 1-2 day of work.

Everything appear to be free on the net but it cannot be. Having 10 lenses of 2300$ each and needing to wait until the lense is available for everyone just mean you invest much more, likely 10 time more as you need to test each lense completely to be accurate. This might be a full month worth of work.

The review will be plublished slower so obviously you are going to miss the all the traffic for all the guys that search for the reviews now.

Even through many are criticizing the reviews here, they want them, go see them when they are available and so own. Our own behavior is responsible for the way most reviewers behave.
04-22-2015, 10:56 AM   #973
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Even Photozone did a couple retests.
Photozone seems to not test anything more from Pentax.
04-22-2015, 11:02 AM   #974
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Photozone seems to not test anything more from Pentax.
They've deserted us.... I always wondered how he could support such a small company as much as he did.
04-22-2015, 11:06 AM   #975
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For me, until other reviews comes online, the words, 'astounding'' are clear enough.
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