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04-30-2015, 12:30 AM   #556
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Exactly the same review was previously posted on ePhotozine.

Plus review shows photo of flower, says 'Closest focus with this lens is 1.1 metres', even though another part of the article [correctly] sez 'The minimum focus distance of 2metres is typical for a lens of this type'. Sloppy.

04-30-2015, 12:32 AM   #557
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
You are right, and there is no difference btw 100 /150 and 400/450mm same apertures either.
Any more bulsh... sir ?
What a nonsense discussion,he knows not much about lenses,costs and about the lenses
Best regards
04-30-2015, 02:36 AM   #558
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Ahh i see how this is played...lets ignore the specs and cost of similarly spec'd items. And if they are brought to our attention, let's call them "whiners". The internet version of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "i cant hear you, i cant hear you".

I am sure only whiners read the specs of these products, not diligent consumers.

---------- Post added 04-29-15 at 10:07 PM ----------



Honestly, I am not even concerned with the optical abilities of any of these lenses. The differences between them I am sure couldn't even be seen in real life shooting. (Well amongst the OEM lenses at least). That's where the real differences matter. Weight and MFD are meaningful. Of course as is cost.

And regarding the bodies, I agree the K-3 is the best camera in this space right now. That's why I am disappointed by the price of this lens. A few hundred dollars cheaper and people would really have a viable 2nd system option.

About in body SR, I would be very skeptical about the idea that it would be as effective for a 50mm lens as it is for a 400mm lens.

---------- Post added 04-29-15 at 10:10 PM ----------



Canon is still selling at its initial release price. You can compare both prices at B&H. So assuming they both drop a couple hundred bucks, the delta in cost will remain.
What the Pentax ends up selling at depends on how many Pentax sells. If it needs to drop to Canon's price in order to have reasonable sales, then it will. Unless you absolutely need the lens today, there is no reason not to wait a few months and get a little better price.

As far as in body image stabilization versus in lens stabilization, this is a major reason to go with Pentax. Or Olympus. Other than getting a stabilized view finder, you should be able to get equivalent stabilization with the sensor that you get optically. Olympus has been better than Pentax over time, but maybe the K3 II will bring Pentax to the Olympus level of performance with regard to SR.

If you want in lens image stabilization, Pentax is probably not a good brand for you. They have made it clear that they are putting their eggs in the basket of in body image stabilization and once again are making improvements to that. I think in practice they should be able to achieve equivalent performance with SR as Canon and Nikon do with their optical stabilization, even with long lenses.

For most people shooting a lens like this, with or without stabilization, a steady tripod is a must. I just don't know how many people would really stick a lens this size on their camera and go for a walk in the woods, expecting to come away with some decent shots. I'd have to work out a lot before I could do something like that and the experience wouldn't be particularly enjoyable, even then.
04-30-2015, 03:08 AM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
For most people shooting a lens like this, with or without stabilization, a steady tripod is a must. I just don't know how many people would really stick a lens this size on their camera and go for a walk in the woods, expecting to come away with some decent shots. I'd have to work out a lot before I could do something like that and the experience wouldn't be particularly enjoyable, even then.
AFAIAC, that will be a sturdy monopode with RRS special plate/ballhead
That one that is used by 500/4 or 560/5.6 shooters.

04-30-2015, 03:59 AM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Ahh i see how this is played...lets ignore the specs and cost of similarly spec'd items. And if they are brought to our attention, let's call them "whiners". The internet version of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "i cant hear you, i cant hear you".

I am sure only whiners read the specs of these products, not diligent consumers.

---------- Post added 04-29-15 at 10:07 PM ----------



Honestly, I am not even concerned with the optical abilities of any of these lenses. The differences between them I am sure couldn't even be seen in real life shooting. (Well amongst the OEM lenses at least). That's where the real differences matter. Weight and MFD are meaningful. Of course as is cost.

And regarding the bodies, I agree the K-3 is the best camera in this space right now. That's why I am disappointed by the price of this lens. A few hundred dollars cheaper and people would really have a viable 2nd system option.

About in body SR, I would be very skeptical about the idea that it would be as effective for a 50mm lens as it is for a 400mm lens.

---------- Post added 04-29-15 at 10:10 PM ----------



Canon is still selling at its initial release price. You can compare both prices at B&H. So assuming they both drop a couple hundred bucks, the delta in cost will remain.
And you are also comparing a new lens with a second generation lens. Canon has alot of its development cost paid from the first lens. For an example take the k3II where the msrp is way below the K3 msrp.
And inbody or inlens SR. I prefere inbody because i get astrotracer and superresolution. Automatic level. I can make small shift and stitch in post. And it works with my old lenses
04-30-2015, 05:42 AM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by melander Quote
And you are also comparing a new lens with a second generation lens. Canon has alot of its development cost paid from the first lens. For an example take the k3II where the msrp is way below the K3 msrp.
And inbody or inlens SR. I prefere inbody because i get astrotracer and superresolution. Automatic level. I can make small shift and stitch in post. And it works with my old lenses
I guess the thing that I have not understood is why Pentax prices their lenses (without image stabilization) the same as Canon/Nikon do (with image stabilization). To me, one of the benefits of having image stabilization in the body is that you should get a little price break, in that you don't have to pay for IS in each lens. Canon and Nikon charge quite a bit extra for image stabilization, but Pentax doesn't charge any less because they don't have to design it into the lens.
04-30-2015, 05:46 AM   #562
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I guess the two companies dont have the same breakdown and that given the (very) low sales volumes for pro grade optics, Pentax is bound to have higher prices.
But when sales are successfull, the prices will go down.
04-30-2015, 05:53 AM   #563
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And it will be for this lens. Not sure for the 70-200 but the 150-450 will be a fast mover.

04-30-2015, 05:58 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I guess the two companies dont have the same breakdown and that given the (very) low sales volumes for pro grade optics, Pentax is bound to have higher prices.
But when sales are successfull, the prices will go down.
Sure. I understand that. Canon sells their 70-200 f2.8 IS II for 2100 dollars and 70-200 f2.8 without IS for 1350 dollars (Amazon prices). Pentax is releasing their 70-200 for 2300.

It would just be nice to see them pick some price point between the IS and non-IS lenses. A selling point for Pentax would definitely be: "You don't need IS in the lens and you get a price break as a result." The way it is currently the benefits of SR end up being for the most part (a) the non-SR things you can do with it and (b) it works on older lenses and primes, where it wouldn't be available in other systems.
04-30-2015, 06:31 AM   #565
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure. I understand that. Canon sells their 70-200 f2.8 IS II for 2100 dollars and 70-200 f2.8 without IS for 1350 dollars (Amazon prices). Pentax is releasing their 70-200 for 2300. .
First of all the 2.8 MKII is a fair bit better than the non IS lens which is quite old now, also, what was the original price of the MKII when released? it has dropped in price quite a lot recently due to it being a few years old now so presumably production costs are cheaper.

A faire comparison would be with the new Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM II and that is a good deal more expensive than the Pentax.
04-30-2015, 06:36 AM   #566
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Not every potential buyer will use Canon as a reference point. For lenses, it's worthwhile comparing Pentax with Nikon too. Nikon's price for their 70-200 VRII today is US$2,396, just like the Pentax 70-200, and unlike Canon, Nikon don't do IS/non IS versions of the same focal lengths.

Nikon can, however, offer a cheaper stabilized 70-200 f4 for $1400. But then a lens buyer familiar with Nikon is in territory covered by the Pentax 60-250 in focal length and price (and with FF support too, by all accounts).

But overall I agree that it would be nice if buyers got a 'discount' on Pentax lenses relative to (for example Nikon) for the absence of fancy and expensive tech like in-lens stabilisation in Pentax. We can dream

Last edited by rawr; 04-30-2015 at 06:43 AM.
04-30-2015, 06:45 AM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Sure. I understand that. Canon sells their 70-200 f2.8 IS II for 2100 dollars and 70-200 f2.8 without IS for 1350 dollars (Amazon prices). Pentax is releasing their 70-200 for 2300.

It would just be nice to see them pick some price point between the IS and non-IS lenses. A selling point for Pentax would definitely be: "You don't need IS in the lens and you get a price break as a result." The way it is currently the benefits of SR end up being for the most part (a) the non-SR things you can do with it and (b) it works on older lenses and primes, where it wouldn't be available in other systems.
I myself has choose Pentax for the price advantage when I will buy lenses without OS. Now, this advantage seems to vanish. And if for some people there is no problem, for many, it is. Even if the IQ of this lenses, 70-200, and 150-500 is on par or better with the best of their competitor, for the price of this lenses someone can buy a Tamron 150-600 with OS and a camera from Canikon, and have some spare money for another lens.

So, I'm a little disappointed by these prices. And, looking at the price evolution for DA 20-40mm, which I think that's not a very wide bought lens, I don't have much hope for a future significant price drop. Maybe, after a couple of years, or more, like it has happened with DA 560mm.
04-30-2015, 06:46 AM   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P Quote
First of all the 2.8 MKII is a fair bit better than the non IS lens which is quite old now, also, what was the original price of the MKII when released? it has dropped in price quite a lot recently due to it being a few years old now so presumably production costs are cheaper.

A faire comparison would be with the new Sony 70-200mm f/2.8 G SSM II and that is a good deal more expensive than the Pentax.
Sure. I am not specifically comparing prices. I just wish you didn't pay the same for Pentax lenses without IS as you do for other companies lenses with IS. That's all. I understand Pentax makes and sells fewer lenses, that these two lenses are newer, etc. It would just be nice if they were a little cheaper...
04-30-2015, 07:06 AM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I myself has choose Pentax for the price advantage when I will buy lenses without OS. Now, this advantage seems to vanish. And if for some people there is no problem, for many, it is. Even if the IQ of this lenses, 70-200, and 150-500 is on par or better with the best of their competitor, for the price of this lenses someone can buy a Tamron 150-600 with OS and a camera from Canikon, and have some spare money for another lens.

So, I'm a little disappointed by these prices. And, looking at the price evolution for DA 20-40mm, which I think that's not a very wide bought lens, I don't have much hope for a future significant price drop. Maybe, after a couple of years, or more, like it has happened with DA 560mm.
The advantage to in camera shake reduction is that it provides SR to your legacy glass. The disadvantage is that once you get into the long glass, you have to make the lenses bigger to accommodate SR. When you are using FF lenses on APS-c this isn't an issue. The Pentax lenses have larger filters, and weigh more, because they have more glass. SO the savings you got with SR at the short end has come back to haunt you in the long end.

That being said, just from an engineering stand point, my guess is that in camera shake reduction is going to be the better solution, eventually. Moving a small sensor is always going to be easier than moving a whole lens assembly. It may be that on 3rd party lenses the long lenses work better with VR in the lens. That doesn't mean that this generation of Pentanes K3II and FF won't match it. Some people are talking as if Pentax hadn't already announced the new bodies SR has been improved to now approach 4 stops, just in time for the two new long lenses to come out. And with Pentax every time they upgrade the SR, every one of your lenses benefits.

I'm not sure you're thinking the right way about this. Even if Pentax doesn't quite catch up with SR in this incarnation, at some point in the future, the Pentax SR is going to have the advantage. With Nikon and Canon, what you have is what you get. It's not getting any better for the lenses you own. You're going to have to buy new lenses to get improved SR in the future. My guess is Pentax is still the cheaper option.
04-30-2015, 07:09 AM   #570
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Delays?

Has anyone heard of any delay issues with the Pentax FA 150-450mm f/4.5-5.6ED? Everyone has been saying a launch in March and here it is almost May. Thoughts on if they are having any problems with build, etc? After pre-ordering I am getting a little worried that the first batch may have issues.


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