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05-03-2015, 06:59 AM   #691
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QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
oh and one other thing sigma doesn't seem to have a problem with making the sony mount.

Actually they do as Sigma recently said they were no longer going to start production of the 150-600mm in Sony mount. I would imagine we will see more announcements like that in the future.

05-03-2015, 07:26 AM   #692
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QuoteOriginally posted by OJGoreng Quote
Thanks. Of course, for fairness's sake, it's not like the 300 +1.4x combo can't hold its own in that field. Here's a few recent ones with that combo. Of course, these were shot at reasonably close distance.






It's hard to do a fair real-life situation comparison test when you're using a lens for wildlife... keeper rate is more informative, I guess.
Nice shots, do you have the uncropped buzzard one? I can never get so close with my DA300+1.4 , and if too far the TC is not good,as you have mentioned..will try the AFA 1.7 more & compare
05-03-2015, 07:47 AM   #693
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
People should be more careful they don't sound like idiots.


Otis was reading all these posts over my shoulder, and when he read this he said..."Looks like someone is calling for you to step in and open your big mouth!"

So here is Mike.P's post.....
"180mm on a 450mm capable lens is just pointless, anyone buying this will be using it mainly at it's full focal length. The first thing I did when buying my Sigma 50-500mm OS a few years back was try it at 500mm handheld as that's what I got it for.

These shots do nothing to show off the lens or the K-S2 .... Sometimes I really wonder if Pentax/Ricoh want to succeed or they are just happy to keep selling to Pentaxians."


Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/287834-hd-pentax-d-...#ixzz3Z5L62qo3

My reply.....I shoot squirrels, yep, I'm an old squirrel shooter! ...and a few birdies when I get the chance. I use an old Sigma 50-500 I bought over 8 years ago. How is it? Wonderful! It is sharp at any range and although a 150-500 would suit my need just fine, the 50mm has been handy at times, although I could just as easily live without the low end range below 150mm.
How does it compare with the new Pentax 150-450? I can't answer that, but it would have to walk, talk, and glow in the dark before I would give up my Bigma and pay close to $3K for a lens that few would ever notice a difference from the Sigma I already own. In fact, it would have to dance the jig too or I wouldn't be interested.

There are some here that are better shooters, more professional, and more skilled than me......I assume there are a ton of them from what I see posted here on PForums.....most excellent work for certain, and far above my skills. However, most of us are not in that league and the difference in what we get with an $800. Bigma and a $3K Pentax is not going to be noticeable, even to our own eyes, much less to anyone else.

Bottom line for me is that if you can't get decent shots with the Bigma, you can't with anything else in its category. You can spend all your money, you can be "Pentax Proud" and Pentax Broke" but you won't get better shots.

Otis won't comment on whether or not I sounded like an idiot....but I am sure someone will!

I shoot squirrels....I have thousands of shots...almost all with the Bigma @ 500mm and ALL are handheld. A handful are here...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129469263@N03/sets/72157651153186152/

Sometimes a few birdies.....a few of them are here...same Bigma, most at 500mm, most wide open, and ALL are handheld
https://www.flickr.com/photos/129469263@N03/sets/72157651162955781/

For me this is plenty good enough a shot of a mangy rodent squirrel! If you need better, get that Pentax and see what you can do!


Best Regards!
Rupert
05-03-2015, 09:29 AM   #694
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
Nice shots, do you have the uncropped buzzard one? I can never get so close with my DA300+1.4 , and if too far the TC is not good,as you have mentioned..will try the AFA 1.7 more & compare
The crow & buzzard one is about a quarter of the original frame. Imagine 18 MP worth of blue sky around it . Distance should be around 15-20 meters. For me, part of the trick is photographing the same individual birds over and over again... they learn to ignore you once they realise you're not a threat. It's another reason why I never venture out of the city much; everything in much less shy here, which may have to do with the fact there's no hunting. Then again, virtually all bird species are protected nationwide (EU-wide, actually), so that shouldn't be much of an issue elsewhere either.

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 06:52 PM ----------

So far my four-day weekend seems to be a great way to test the weather-resistance of the lens, hmm. Hardly any light, lots of rain. I've added a few shots from today to the test album. Brief selection here:

Converter test: left with, right without. These are crops; i've placed the original frame (of the shot taken with converter) in the bottom left of the image. There was some rain when I took this shot, so there's quite some water between the falcon and the lens.



This was a bit of a lucky shot; I know a pair of Goshawks who have decided to build a nest hidden in plain sight. Shortly after I arrived, the female came to relieve the male (left) of his egg hatching duties. The type of shot required manual focus because of all the twigs blocking the view. Also a crop.



Pied wagtail catching an airborne bug:



second calender year male Great Black-backed Gull; there's a few more gull shots in there.



Oh, I also took a shot at photographing swifts; they're among the fastest of all birds and hard to photograph. The shots weren't suitable for Flickr, but I put some up here. Given how it was raining and dark, I'm not unsatisfied... Don't know if they let me hotlink:




Last edited by OJGoreng; 05-03-2015 at 10:27 AM.
05-03-2015, 12:52 PM   #695
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Very nice shots !
my preference to the hare, the "crowded" buzzard and the pied wagtail !
05-03-2015, 02:08 PM   #696
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
I use an old Sigma 50-500 I bought over 8 years ago. How is it? Wonderful! It is sharp at any range and although a 150-500 would suit my need just fine, the 50mm has been handy at times, although I could just as easily live without the low end range below 150mm.
How does it compare with the new Pentax 150-450? I can't answer that, but it would have to walk, talk, and glow in the dark before I would give up my Bigma and pay close to $3K for a lens that few would ever notice a difference from the Sigma I already own. In fact, it would have to dance the jig too or I wouldn't be interested.
I recently sold my Sigma 100-300mm f4 and 50-500mm OS so that I was able to buy the 150-450mm and I have to say from what I save seen so far I am seriously starting to regret doing so. The 50-500mm really is a superb lens, especially for what it costs but I'm really hoping to see some shots soon that convince me that I did the right thing.

At the moment, I don't.
05-03-2015, 02:19 PM   #697
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QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
which seems to have been solved by a change in repair facilities.
I do not believe this is true. The change in repair facilities occurred just recently however Pentax stated that the SDM motor was changed in 2012 to correct the problems. The old repair facility might take the blame but they were only using parts supplied by Pentax. The new facility is using the new part and any difference in the repair facility is coincidental. Personally I had much better service from the old facility and I've used both.

QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
but i just think they are going about tall wrong if they want to gain market share. and while japan is an important market the US market is the largest and the most lucrative
US market is not the largest anymore and has not been the most lucrative for a long time. Yes, it is a large market but it is also very expensive to promote, sell and support a product here. Other markets seem to have much better returns, particularly emerging markets where Canon or Nikon are not so firmly entrenched. Why fight an uphill battle in a tough, expensive market when you can invest time and energy in being in on the ground floor in new markets?

Ricoh seems to think this lens will sell to someone. But maybe not to old Pentax shooters accustomed to bargain basement prices. I have said for several years Ricoh is building a new camera business. If the old Pentax users want to go along, fine but they are not building on the existing user base. I won't go so far as to say they do not care about existing users, but I don't think they care a lot about what existing users will buy. They are focusing on the future and only time will tell if their plan works.
05-03-2015, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #698
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
They are focusing on the future and only time will tell if their plan works.
Well made, high performance brand-name gear can be legitimately priced at a premium, IMHO. And if you look at a lens as a tool with a 10-20 year lifespan, 'sticker shock' can be made more bearable. (Not to mention the better re-sale value of brand-name premium lenses).

Nikon pro level gear can be dazzlingly expensive, yet when I browse Nikon forums online, I don't see forum chatter where users insist that every high-end lens Nikon makes should be priced the same as a Sigma or Tamron.

Folks should give Pentax their due.


Last edited by rawr; 05-03-2015 at 03:47 PM.
05-03-2015, 03:23 PM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P Quote
I recently sold my Sigma 100-300mm f4 and 50-500mm OS so that I was able to buy the 150-450mm and I have to say from what I save seen so far I am seriously starting to regret doing so. The 50-500mm really is a superb lens, especially for what it costs but I'm really hoping to see some shots soon that convince me that I did the right thing.

At the moment, I don't.
Why would you have regrets before you even tried that lens ?
If that is going to be a deal breaker for you (and you feel that it was a bad choice), you can always return it within a reasonable time .... I believe most big stores do allow for a return within a few days (10-14 or so usually).
Then, you can always buy another Bigma ! and I will buy the 150-450 it as "used"

Let us know how you fare with the 150-450 once you've tested it vs. your old shots with the Bigma.

Cheers!
05-03-2015, 03:27 PM   #700
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Check out the german pentaxian site. There are some guys taking it out and getting quite good results. So much depends on proper technique with these long lenses. I suspect we will see some very nice stuff in a month or so.

Pentax was smart to delay the release. The ones getting them now have some light and wildlife to shoot and are able to show the lens at it's best. If they released it in November in Canada, well nothing looks very good then.
05-03-2015, 03:51 PM   #701
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Well made, high performance brand-name gear can be legitimately priced at a premium, IMHO. And if you look at a lens as a tool with a 10-20 year lifespan, 'sticker shock' can be made more bearable. (Not to mention the better re-sale value of brand-name premium lenses).
I am contemplating getting this lens at some point but it seemed a large purchase expense for me. In talking to my son, who is not a photographer, I asked what his Jet-ski cost ($9,000) and how often do you use it (maybe 5 days a year). Then I asked what his Snow-mobile cost ($4,500) and how often do you use it (maybe 10 days a year). That does not include the cost of fuel, maintenance, licenses and permits and the trailer to haul them around. Now he enjoys his toys and has a good job so what he spends his money on is his business. But it makes a $2,500 lens that would be used maybe 20 - 30 days a year and last 20 years seem like a bargain. Not trying to make any point really, it just made me think.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Nikon pro level gear can be blindingly expensive, yet when I browse Nikon forums online, I don't see forum chatter where users insist that every high-end lens Nikon makes should be priced the same as a Sigma or Tamron.
One factor in this is that Nikon & Canon have a fuller stable of lenses so that while someone might like a fast expensive lens there are alternatives that are slower but less expensive. At this point in time Pentax has some legacy lenses, some APS-C lenses and some new very expensive ones. They need to fill out the catalog a bit and when they do I think the complaints will subside a bit. That will happen, I believe, but of course it will take some time.
05-03-2015, 04:36 PM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not trying to make any point really, it just made me think.
That's all I am doing - thinking aloud. I'm certainly not inviting Pentax to make all of their new D FA lenses super-expensive! I'm as cheap as the next guy on most things.
05-03-2015, 06:55 PM   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P Quote
I recently sold my Sigma 100-300mm f4 and 50-500mm OS so that I was able to buy the 150-450mm and I have to say from what I save seen so far I am seriously starting to regret doing so. The 50-500mm really is a superb lens, especially for what it costs but I'm really hoping to see some shots soon that convince me that I did the right thing.

At the moment, I don't.
OJGoreng shots look pretty good to me, especially the ones where the subjects are close considering the poor light conditions. For what I've seen from the samples the D-Fa 150-450 seems like a really good lens, the contrast, colors and overall IQ of the Da* 300, the reach of the Da* 300 + 1.4x (but sharper), the size and AF speed of the Sigma 100-300 (which I've owned) without the noise ( I know you know all this by the way) I don't think there's any reason for concern, you can always return it. The only reason I'm not buying this lens is because I already own a 300/f2.8 AF which I use most of the time. Other than that, the 150-450 looks like a really good buy to me..
05-03-2015, 07:43 PM   #704
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QuoteOriginally posted by OJGoreng Quote
The crow & buzzard one is about a quarter of the original frame. Imagine 18 MP worth of blue sky around it . Distance should be around 15-20 meters. For me, part of the trick is photographing the same individual birds over and over again... they learn to ignore you once they realise you're not a threat. It's another reason why I never venture out of the city much; everything in much less shy here, which may have to do with the fact there's no hunting. Then again, virtually all bird species are protected nationwide (EU-wide, actually), so that shouldn't be much of an issue elsewhere either.



Oh, I also took a shot at photographing swifts; they're among the fastest of all birds and hard to photograph. The shots weren't suitable for Flickr, but I put some up here. Given how it was raining and dark, I'm not unsatisfied... Don't know if they let me hotlink:
Where I am in the countryside its hard to 'know' the buzzards,smaller birds I can get 1 m away from at times,but must make a hide I guess for the birds of prey..

I thought Swallows were the fastest? this one with DA300+1.4 TC handheld
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05-03-2015, 08:25 PM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Very nice shots !
my preference to the hare, the "crowded" buzzard and the pied wagtail !
Do keep in mind the crowded buzzard was for comparison only, that one is DA*300mm + 1.4x HD converter.

Re: Sigma vs. the new lens... I would definitely agree that for a lot of purposes, I seriously doubt if you would get any improvement from the Pentax over the Sigma. I only have an old screwdrive Sigma, which is optically far worse than the current ones; but I have borrowed a newer one and it's a perfectly fine lens, albeit with a far worse focusing speed compared to the old one. However, I wouldn't dare to take a Bigma into a rain storm, or attempt to take a shot at a fast-flying bird. Typical law of diminishing returns; slight improvements cost disproportionate amounts of money. If you have no need for those specific improvements, it would be ridiculous to spend that money indeed.

Funny thing is that that after I made that "cat with lenses" shot when the new lens arrived, I was going over my old photos made with that big 70s Novoflex lens. You can probably pick one up for about €150 (or less?) these days. Optically, its nicer than my screwdrive Sigma that replaced it, it's just a pain to handle and of course it's MF only. I just grabbed these recent shots (not by me) from the Flickr pool for that Novoflex lens. Does this justify paying six or so times more for a Bigma? I highly doubt it. Sure, there's a bit of CA on the edges, but nothing that can't be fixed in pp, right?



In other words, comparisons like that are barely useful. During the few times I've taken out the lens, I've caught myself thinking "I could have done this easily and better with the DA*" in a lot of situations, and "no way the DA* would have focused on this so quickly" in others.

Last edited by OJGoreng; 05-03-2015 at 08:39 PM.
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