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05-03-2015, 09:37 PM - 1 Like   #706
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Well made, high performance brand-name gear can be legitimately priced at a premium, IMHO. And if you look at a lens as a tool with a 10-20 year lifespan, 'sticker shock' can be made more bearable. (Not to mention the better re-sale value of brand-name premium lenses).

Nikon pro level gear can be dazzlingly expensive, yet when I browse Nikon forums online, I don't see forum chatter where users insist that every high-end lens Nikon makes should be priced the same as a Sigma or Tamron.

Folks should give Pentax their due.
Pentax over the last few years has marketed themselves to much as the cheaper brand, they need the influx of people that want to spend money on FF and the new 70-200 and the 150-450. Far to many pentaxians want to spend very little on the pantax branded lenses which will hurt pentax in the wallet.

05-03-2015, 10:07 PM   #707
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Interestingly enough, it's now sold out at the dealer where I got mine. I wonder if they only got one which I now have, or that a lot of people jumped on it at the same time. It seems to be in stock nowhere else in the country.
05-04-2015, 01:17 AM   #708
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Can you know how many they recieved ?

EDIT : nice shots again, and good analysis !

Last edited by Zygonyx; 05-04-2015 at 02:04 AM.
05-04-2015, 03:16 AM   #709
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And you think the problem is Pentax not selling their high-end lenses cheaper than consumer-level Sigma ones?
no I'm not saying they should undercut sigma what i am saying is that they are pricing a lot of people out of the market. and sigma makes high quality glass i don't think there is any doubt about that. i am not trying to be a knucklehead here i just don't want to have to change mounts if they go belly up at some point.

05-04-2015, 03:27 AM - 6 Likes   #710
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Not long ago, people were crying that there was no upgrade path from the Pentax APS-C cameras (the 645Z notwithstanding). Now there looks as though there will be a full-frame camera and lenses - i.e. an upgrade similar to Canikon - people are complaining about the price. Give me strength!
05-04-2015, 03:38 AM   #711
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The 645Z is much more expensive - yet the demand is double of what they estimated it would be. Was the 645Z a mistake, because "they are pricing a lot of people out of the market"?
People are complaining as if there should be an upper-level limit over which the K-mount should not go. But, what about people wanting (and affording) more than that? What about the people willing to spend thousands of € on cameras and lenses? Would it help Pentax to continue losing such customers?

P.S. Pentax was supposed to go belly up for decades... I wouldn't hold my breath.
05-04-2015, 03:48 AM   #712
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I do not believe this is true. The change in repair facilities occurred just recently however Pentax stated that the SDM motor was changed in 2012 to correct the problems. The old repair facility might take the blame but they were only using parts supplied by Pentax. The new facility is using the new part and any difference in the repair facility is coincidental. Personally I had much better service from the old facility and I've used both.

US market is not the largest anymore and has not been the most lucrative for a long time. Yes, it is a large market but it is also very expensive to promote, sell and support a product here. Other markets seem to have much better returns, particularly emerging markets where Canon or Nikon are not so firmly entrenched. Why fight an uphill battle in a tough, expensive market when you can invest time and energy in being in on the ground floor in new markets?

Ricoh seems to think this lens will sell to someone. But maybe not to old Pentax shooters accustomed to bargain basement prices. I have said for several years Ricoh is building a new camera business. If the old Pentax users want to go along, fine but they are not building on the existing user base. I won't go so far as to say they do not care about existing users, but I don't think they care a lot about what existing users will buy. They are focusing on the future and only time will tell if their plan works.
part of the problem was the repair facility per a conversation i had with pentax in colorado. thats why they changed. they weren't properly testing the repairs.

they will sell these to someone and maybe me but i don't see how the US market isn't the largest anymore. i think its just that you can't open magazine or turn on the tube and not see a canon or sony ad. they have saturated the market. now i have noticed that europe seems to use a lot of pentax from posts and a few articles i have read. and a lot of the old high end lenses i see for sale on eBay are from asia so i imagine they have a good market share there also. but there are more pentax shooters in the US than a lot of us think. in the two clubs i belong to there are three of us and we do well in our contests with the canikon shooters. we even have one leica shooter but not single sony shooter.
05-04-2015, 03:55 AM   #713
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@Cynog Ap Brychan You are right, but I think the discussion here is not about the price itself, but the price in relation to the quality. I think it is still early to judge but I don't like the fact that the 150-450 is not compared with the top class zooms like the 100-400 II from Canon but mostly against the bigma and other lets say inferior zooms. I know that it is very difficult to compare lenses that are not used on the same camera, but I would prefer to see pictures from K-3 with the 150-450 Vs the relevant systems from Canon, Nikon, Sony...

PS1: I have tried the 80-400 II from Nikon and I was not impressed at all. No real difference to my Bigma on K-5, if there is any at all! So someone might say its in the same class-price, but I really hope the 150-450 is clearly better!

PS2: A general comment on this thread and other similar ones. As a Greek I can't understand how we expect Europe's leaders to agree in serious socioeconomic matters that affect the lives of millions and given the fact that there are conflicting interests from various parts when in here we have spent so many pages sometimes arguing on a new lens from our favorite brand that it surely is good news and makes all of us happy! We are on the same side and still sometimes there is too much debate and negativism in here to bare... :-~

05-04-2015, 03:59 AM   #714
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Judging by the CIPA data regarding shipments, the US interchangeable lens camera market is the 3rd, after Asia and Europe (still 3rd if we include compacts, but Europe is first, Asia second). The US interchangeable lens market is - care to guess? - 3rd, after Asia and Europe.
Afaik, Pentax is a bit atypical, being strongest in Japan and then I guess Europe.
05-04-2015, 04:18 AM   #715
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nitehntr : this is reading for you / point n1

http://www./2015/02/17/10-things-canon-shooters-hate-about-canon/
05-04-2015, 04:44 AM   #716
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The 645Z is much more expensive - yet the demand is double of what they estimated it would be. Was the 645Z a mistake, because "they are pricing a lot of people out of the market"?
People are complaining as if there should be an upper-level limit over which the K-mount should not go. But, what about people wanting (and affording) more than that? What about the people willing to spend thousands of on cameras and lenses? Would it help Pentax to continue losing such customers?
There is a large gap (in terms of both price and performance) between the K-mount equipment and the 645-mount equipment.

In effect, what Ricoh is doing this year is filling part of that gap. Without degrading either what is above or what is below that gap.
05-04-2015, 06:17 AM   #717
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Someone should attach the D-FA 150-450 on a Q and a gimbal setup, that sensor can push the optical performance of any lens to the limit.
05-04-2015, 06:28 AM   #718
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QuoteOriginally posted by OJGoreng Quote
Interestingly enough, it's now sold out at the dealer where I got mine. I wonder if they only got one which I now have, or that a lot of people jumped on it at the same time. It seems to be in stock nowhere else in the country.
it is, cameratools has just one in stock. So i think all major dealers just got one as first orders.

just cameranu, it had one on stock as well
05-04-2015, 07:58 AM   #719
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QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
i just don't want to have to change mounts if they go belly up at some point.
Based on your join date you have been here a while. So maybe you remember 2009, 2010? When the biggest topic here was how long your camera would last after Pentax went under. The speculation was not so much if but when they would close.

Can you honestly say Pentax's future is not much brighter now than it was then?
QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
part of the problem was the repair facility per a conversation i had with pentax in colorado. thats why they changed. they weren't properly testing the repairs.
That might be what you were told, will not argue that. But I had three lenses repaired at the old facility, all perfectly done. It took three tries and almost 5 months to fix my 18-135 at Precision. And it took a personal contact with Ricoh to keep Precision from charging me three times for the same repair. I think the move was due to Precision under bidding the other guys. And based on the complaints about Precision here and on other forums I think I know why they can bid lower.
QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
but i don't see how the US market isn't the largest anymore
CIPA data indicates otherwise. And Americans should realize it is a big world out there and we are not the center of the universe.
QuoteOriginally posted by nitehntr Quote
in the two clubs i belong to there are three of us
Three out of how many? But I don't get your point. There are Pentax shooters in the US, no one questions that. But US is at best a secondary market for Ricoh. They will sell here but marketing efforts are on other markets. And as you note they are indeed trying to see what the market will bear. They've done that with just about every new release. Start high and evaluate sales, drop price as needed to maintain volume. That's just good business as far as I'm concerned. And pricing is in line with offerings from other major companies, third party is cheaper, but Pentax is not third party.
05-04-2015, 08:10 AM   #720
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
And Americans should realize it is a big world out there and we are not the center of the universe.
Perhaps the market is roughly proportional to population?

USA: about 4.4% of the population of the world.
Europe: about 10.1% of the population of the world.

(Estimates differ!)
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