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02-08-2015, 08:10 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by jlstrawman Quote
+1. Happens a lot around here.
Measurbating is a hobby in it's own right. The one crazy thing is, even kit lenses are so good these days, it's hard to take a picture that is ruined because you have a bad lens, and the lenses that take exceptional pictures, it's often impossible to tell from the numbers, compared to other lenses why that's even true. Measure bating is truly the interpretation of data without corellation to the images they describe.

Until we run a blind test in which we conclusively prove that people prefer images taken with lenses of specific characteristics, those numbers don't mean anything. They are rather meaningless discussion points, in terms of photography.

In terms of statistical quibbling, like how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, and stuff like that, it's a pursuit with different goals and payoffs than photography. You see it over and over. The much trashed DA 18-135 take amazing picture in amazing places, because it's there. And because despite what the numbers say, it's a really good lens. Can you get better, sure, can you see the difference? I bet not. I'm sure you can concoct a test where you would see the difference. But if you just go through your life shooting the pictures of scenes you think are worth preserving, probably not.

If test images are your thing go for it. Just don't think it has much to do with photography. The difference between my DA*60-250 and my Sigma 18-250 is, the DA* has slightly smoother bokeh, seeing the 300- or 400 difference in lw/ph, you really have to look for it.

And between the worst lens and the best lens, that's probably all there is. Based on a lw/ph of 2700, that's just not worth fretting about. A bit of motion blur will cost you a lot more than that.


Last edited by normhead; 02-08-2015 at 08:27 AM.
02-08-2015, 08:18 AM   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Such a camera wouldn't be cheap though... and it would be mostly around how you use it, about ergonomics rather than dropping features. It would simply be more aimed at a manual way of using it. Say the aperture ring has an A setting, the exposure dial has an A setting, the ISO dial (perhaps by pushing down the exposure dial you can change it) also has an A setting. If all is A, you have P mode. etc.
Yep, this is allabout use (to me), not having the exact same depth as an ME super. I don't care so much (not that I would spit on it lol).
02-08-2015, 08:20 AM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
This new camera will probably have a bigger, brighter viewfinder, IBIS and focus peaking for those lenses, Blue.

Not sure what else you'd want.

I had a split-prism focussing screen put into my K-30 to replace the stock one - you can always do that.
I guess you don't understand the value of ttl. Furthermore, Pentax generally offers a optional macro focus screen for there flagship cameras. That is what I tend to use for manual focus. There is more to things than a split screen. This body looks to have good manual controls so all it needs is ttl support.
02-08-2015, 09:55 AM   #424
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Excellent, Pentax is one less doomed?

02-08-2015, 10:49 AM   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by vsgvietnam Quote
Excellent, Pentax is one less doomed?
Pentax is always Doomed. But the longer it is doomed, the longer it will survive. Thus the more doomed Pentax is the better. When Pentax is no longer Doomed it is gone. Being Doomed is a good thing. It means you're still there.
02-08-2015, 12:04 PM   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I guess you don't understand the value of ttl.
Well, you must have fond memories, Blue - why have camera companies ditched it?
02-08-2015, 01:28 PM   #427
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, you must have fond memories, Blue - why have camera companies ditched it?
If you understood the differences in operation ttl and p-ttl, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Pentax PTTL has the camera limitation that only works with certain type of lenses which means that PTTL cannot be used with many of the optics we use for extreme macro, as these are classified as non contact 'manual' lenses. This would include the new Chinese Venus 60mm lens that is 2:1. If you don't do this type of photography, or use Legacy glass, its not much of an issue. The last Nikon I used for macro was the D70 and Nikkor 100mm macro (af lens.) I also have a couple of Tammy SP Adaptall 2 90mm lenses and original Tamron mounts for EF and F (as well as PKA.) That said, my favorite current macros are the DA 35mm ltd and D FA 100mm WR Macro. My favorite macro lens is probably the 50mm Macro-Tak which was one of the first native 1:1 macro lenses.
02-08-2015, 01:57 PM - 1 Like   #428
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Well, you must have fond memories, Blue - why have camera companies ditched it?
Cost : nothing else whatever they'll tell you.

02-08-2015, 04:30 PM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I guess you don't understand the value of ttl.
not understanding this sentence much -- ttl metering? pentax was the first to have it, wasn't it? ttl viewfinder? what slr doesn't have that?

update: google's my friend. ha, this totally explains trouble i'd been having with flash and screwmount lenses on my k-01.
02-08-2015, 04:43 PM   #430
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
which means that PTTL cannot be used with many of the optics we use for extreme macro
P-TTL works with A lenses, and the AF160FC ring flash works with P-TTL. The problem is that the camera can't tell the flash how long to fire for without measuring flash light separately from ambient light. Unlike film, a digital camera sensor doesn't reflect enough light to work the built-in flash light meter, so for digital TTL, the camera fires a pre-flash to meter the flash light, instead of metering it while the shutter is open. Digital TTL has the benefit of metering all light entering the camera, not just light reflected off the film medium, multiple pre-flashes are possible to get even more accurate light readings, and the flash can be controlled to compensate for focal length, assuming the lens is able to supply that information to the camera. But if the lens can't tell the camera what aperture it is set at, then digital TTL doesn't work at all.
02-08-2015, 05:48 PM   #431
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
P-TTL works with A lenses, and the AF160FC ring flash works with P-TTL. The problem is that the camera can't tell the flash how long to fire for without measuring flash light separately from ambient light. Unlike film, a digital camera sensor doesn't reflect enough light to work the built-in flash light meter, so for digital TTL, the camera fires a pre-flash to meter the flash light, instead of metering it while the shutter is open. Digital TTL has the benefit of metering all light entering the camera, not just light reflected off the film medium, multiple pre-flashes are possible to get even more accurate light readings, and the flash can be controlled to compensate for focal length, assuming the lens is able to supply that information to the camera. But if the lens can't tell the camera what aperture it is set at, then digital TTL doesn't work at all.
Nice of you to snip out a partial sentence to quote. A lenses aren't extreme macro. They are 1:1 at best. Try using P-ttl on a reversed lens or bellows or that new Venus 60mm 2:1 which is the first offering in k-mount greater than life size. However, its Clackes that doesn't seem to follow this.

Edit: I have one extension tube that may work with p-ttl & the D FA lens. My Pentax tubes, no dice.
02-08-2015, 06:08 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Nice of you to snip out a partial sentence to quote. A lenses aren't extreme macro. They are 1:1 at best. Try using P-ttl on a reversed lens or bellows or that new Venus 60mm 2:1 which is the first offering in k-mount greater than life size. However, its Clackes that doesn't seem to follow this.

Edit: I have one extension tube that may work with p-ttl & the D FA lens. My Pentax tubes, no dice.
My point was that old-fashioned TTL flash metering doesn't work with modern DSLRs. As far as I can tell, the reason P-TTL doesn't work with your extreme macro equipment is because the camera isn't getting the necessary information from your lenses. There may be other reasons why P-TTL doesn't work with your setup as well, and IMHO, you aren't missing much by not being able to use P-TTL. If the new Pentax FF has P-TTL v. 2.0, that could be another reason to buy one, but any improvements in P-TTL likely won't work with existing P-TTL flashes. Unless it comes with a built-in flash, of course, and that built-in flash probably won't be useful for your extreme macro work. I'm not picking sides, just passing along some information that I came across.
02-08-2015, 06:35 PM   #433
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Why does Adorama show 35mm equivalents for these two new lens, I thought they were 35mm/full frame sized already?

</title> <meta name="Keywords" content="pentax , telephoto , telephoto zoom , Telephoto Zoom Lens" /> <meta name="description" content="A Pair of Pentax Long Zoom Lenses: First Look. A first step towards a full-frame DSLR. Pentax adds two rugged tele
02-08-2015, 06:39 PM - 1 Like   #434
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Adorama doesn't know there's a Pentax FF coming, and even if they did... if you're buying it for APS_c, you might want to know.
02-08-2015, 07:23 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Try using P-ttl on a reversed lens or bellows or that new Venus 60mm 2:1 which is the first offering in k-mount greater than life size. However, its Clackes that doesn't seem to follow this.
Well, I am still puzzled, Blue. In such a controlled environment (this is extreme macro, not a birthday party, right?) , isn't manual flash much more controllable?
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