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02-11-2015, 08:55 AM   #601
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
One person's meager 3 oz more is another person's 2.25 times as heavy (Li109 vs 4AA+holder).
That's fine. I was pointing out it is a very small change. We're arguing peanuts here. Even over the course of a whole day, if your load is just 3 oz more I strongly doubt you're going to really notice. Of course we can make it look significant by calling it 2.25 times or 125% more. But in the end, it is just 3 ounces. 4 pennies is a 300% increase over starting with 1. But it's still just 4 cents. If that bothers you, then use the LI.

02-11-2015, 09:18 AM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Beats me. I know what I look like, and if I take a photo of a scene or a group of people, I know I was there. Anyway, with a face like mine, a photograph is definitely better without it.
You and me both then, no pics of me in my house!
02-11-2015, 09:36 AM - 2 Likes   #603
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K-S2 is not a selfie cam

I don't think Pentax designers were thinking selfies, not even a little. Samsung (or someone) recently produced a compact with a flip UP screen that was marketed to "selfie-shooters," but all of that marketing language is just . . . marketing language. The original marketing language for the K-S1, as we all saw, was ostensibly directed towards helping cell-phone users get into DSLRs. Following that logic, K-S1 would have had a touch screen, but it didn't. So I think the marketing idea they decided to put into ink on paper came after the design. Just like the names of color groupings ("nature" "sweets," "fabric"), it's all arbitrary. It's like calling an off-white interior room paint "misty morning" to have a sales angle. No one is actually going to say that their blue K-S1 is "denim" colored. So the articulated screen of the K-S2 is not there because Pentaxians, or anyone, demanded selfie appurtenances, it's there because of market competition against other articulated/tilt screen competitors, which, more than selfies, is feeding the demand for low-angle/high-angle shooting, which in my view is a very imprecise way to frame a serious shot anyway. It'll do in a pinch, of course, and so has some value. I don't mind it being there, but it is not there because Pentax designers suddenly woke up and said "Dang! We forgot to put a twisty screen on the K-S1 for selfies!" K-S2 was no doubt on the drawing board at the same time as the K-S1, as a K-50 replacement, not a K-S1 upgrade. I don't think for a minute that they threw such a well-specified model as the K-S2 together -- and actually got it into limited production -- after second thoughts and a mere 6 months after release the K-S1. (But they are darned good at rush work if they did.)
02-11-2015, 09:47 AM   #604
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
but it is not there because Pentax designers suddenly woke up and said "Dang! We forgot to put a twisty screen on the K-S1 for selfies!"
You might have a hard time convincing Adam of that. He once wrote that when hands-on reviewers saw the K-S1 prototype they pointed out that the LED's on the grip would be covered up by the hand holding the camera. The (outside contract) designers apparently said something like, "Oh. <insert long pause> We didn't think of that."

02-11-2015, 10:00 AM   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
So the articulated screen of the K-S2 is not there because Pentaxians, or anyone, demanded selfie appurtenances, it's there because of market competition against other articulated/tilt screen competitors, which, more than selfies, is feeding the demand for low-angle/high-angle shooting, which in my view is a very imprecise way to frame a serious shot anyway. It'll do in a pinch, of course, and so has some value.
At a niece's (informal) wedding a few years ago, my brother and I were standing off to the side; he had much less problems that I did in taking pictues, because his Canon has an articulating LCD, and so he used it to take pictures by pointing the LCD down and holding the camera a foot or so over his head. Yes, that is awkward, but it worked for him, and this wasn't a setting where precise composition was essential. He has a fair bit of practice in using the articulation, because he regularly does what is essentially street photography, by pointing the screen up and then hunching over the camera as though he were fiddling with the controls. For this kind of reasoning, I view the articulating LCD as a plus, mostly offsetting the lack of AA battery support.

The camera is what it is, and I can either buy it or save my money and see what they do next year.
02-11-2015, 10:03 AM   #606
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IHS - I Hate Selfies ; + don't envy those who are fans, to say the least...
And ILK-S1

Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-11-2015 at 10:08 AM.
02-11-2015, 10:07 AM   #607
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
feeding the demand for low-angle/high-angle shooting, which in my view is a very imprecise way to frame a serious shot anyway.
Generations of serious Rolleiflex shooters would surely beg to differ!
02-11-2015, 10:15 AM   #608
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QuoteOriginally posted by jules Quote
You and me both then, no pics of me in my house!
I am not so fortuante, at the top of the stairs is a huge woodcut print of me, my wife is a printmaker but also a photographer. In my office at work is a photo of the whole family if that counts, me, my wife, 3 cats and 2 dogs.

The only selfies I have taken have been when playing around with my iPod. My friend took one of himself with a 4X5, Sticky shutter and he went to the front of the camera to see when it did not go off and poof a large out of focus selfie

02-11-2015, 10:16 AM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Generations of serious Rolleiflex shooters would surely beg to differ!
My second camera was the Kodak "Duaflex", which my Dad had originally used to take baby pictures of me; it was another dual lens reflex camera. I was never very good at getting level pictures using it, but it was useful when LBJ came to town, and I was able to get a picture of him (again by holding camera over my head) taken from multiple rows back in the crowd - it was not a great picture, but it was the best I had an opportunity to take, and I guess i could improve it if I were to spend some time in GIMP with it.
02-11-2015, 10:30 AM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Generations of serious Rolleiflex shooters would surely beg to differ!
Yes, I know very well what a Rollieflex is, and frankly, I'd much rather see Pentax return to something much more like it, in particular the removable pentaprism they had on the Pentax LX, which offered a very Rollieflex-like flip-up shade for waist-level viewing of the ground glass. I used that item myself, and it was great. Now THAT would be truly unexpected today, and much better for waist-level viewing than a twisty screen. But it will never happen. The modern LCD has done away with that.
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02-11-2015, 10:38 AM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
reviewers saw the K-S1 prototype they pointed out that the LED's on the grip would be covered up by the hand holding the camera.
They're not covered when using the self-timer or the camera turned around for a "selfie". The primary function of the lights is for the self-timer function and face recognition counts in "selfies".

QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
K-S2 is not a selfie cam
Is it being marketed as a selfie cam? "The camera for the whole family" is the tagline so far - "selfie" friendly features are an additional selling point.
02-11-2015, 10:41 AM - 1 Like   #612
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For purely waist-level (and ground-level) viewing the hinged LCD on the 645Z is actually preferable to me. It stays in the plane of the viewfinder and looks like it is more rigid.

To me it serves the same purpose as a Refconverter.

OTOH, some Refconverters can be turned 180° and you can shoot slightly above your head (with some contortion).
02-11-2015, 10:50 AM   #613
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Beats me. I know what I look like, and if I take a photo of a scene or a group of people, I know I was there. Anyway, with a face like mine, a photograph is definitely better without it.
About selfies ... to me it is a "FAD" : we shall see how long this will last/to be replaced with yet another new FAD.

fad

a thing that becomes very popular in a short amount of time, and then is forgotten at about the same speed.

JP
02-11-2015, 10:53 AM - 1 Like   #614
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
fad
a thing that becomes very popular in a short amount of time, and then is forgotten at about the same speed.
That's what I hoped 'reality' television would be, ain't happened yet.
02-11-2015, 11:04 AM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
Is it being marketed as a selfie cam?
I don't think so (not yet anyway), but other folks have brought the term selfie into the K-S2 discussions. My point is that it doesn't matter what the "marketing language" is, any more than whether I call the green K-S2 "forest green" or "Army drab green." And I agree with someone else above that selfies are faddish anyway. In some demographics, the term selfie will sell nothing, in other demographics, it will pay off. But it doesn't matter with respect to what the camera actually is, and I don't think it was a big wake-up moment for Pentax designers after the K-S1.
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