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02-11-2015, 11:15 AM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
That is more than twice the weight. Carrying a spare li-ion brick isn't too much of an issue, weight wise. AAs are more troublesome.

Anyway, it's nice if they give the AA option, but IMHO I think it is overrated, and giving it USB charging capabilities with a common cable would be, IMHO, a much bigger advantage.
Well if you think that double the juice and versatility is overrated, that's an opinion that I do not share (for what it's worth).

Personally I don't care all that much about AAs but then I don't understand why they are not using D-Li190 instead of D-Li109. Li90 has almost twice the density of the 109...

02-11-2015, 11:26 AM   #617
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
The problem is the USB Battery Charging spec is only for 5V at 0.5-1.5A 2.5-7.5W. The Pentax battery chargers output 8.4V at 700mA.

USB Power Delivery V1.0 was finalized in July 2012 can deliver up to 12V 3.0 A, 60 W 5.0 A, 100 W and requires "PD Aware" Cables (type-A and B connectors) and PD compliant hosts. So you'd have to upgrade your charging devices to be USB PD compliant as well as having the proper cable..

USB Power Delivery V2.0 was not finalized until July 2014 which requires USB 3.1 which uses the new Type-C connector. So you would either have to upgrade your charging devices to USB 3.1 or have a standalone USB 3.1 charger.

I don't know about you but I'd rather take the battery out to charge it. That way you can just swap in a fully charged battery and not wait for hours for the battery to charge. You also don't have to worry about heat issues from the charging battery damaging both the camera and battery.

---------- Post added 02-11-15 at 06:41 AM ----------



As I recall some of the previews and reviews mention the IR port on front and back.
My D-Li90 charger has a USB input, and I charged a battery that was nearly empty in around 6 hours from a 500mA USB port. Maybe with some sources it will take a bit longer, but so what. I'm trying to charge a small battery, not run a desktop computer. It got a bit warm, but nothing bad. Even when I charge it with 1A (the most it will take) it won't heat up too much. And 5V/1A is barely less than 8.4V at 700mA.


The idea is more to be able to charge the camera over night, top up the battery when traveling for example. Or in emergency cases top up a bit while having lunch. If you need to instantly have a full battery you will of course need a spare and just swap it. It won't help you in all situations. Though if you have 2 batteries, you can only charge one at a time. Charging takes a few hours, so doing it over night is a bit of an issue. But not if you can charge one externally and one in the camera.


Also, another use case could be that you plug the camera into a portable USB battery, so that it gets charged while shooting. It would look a bit awkward perhaps, but it's fine. It can also help you take long exposures for star trails, without having to switch the battery or be located near a power socket. i.e. you'd start with a full internal battery, plug in a USB battery and start shooting. It will take the camera much longer to drain the internal battery, and when the USB battery is drained you can plug in another one to continue without interruption or finish the one inside the camera.


Selfies:
I think normal people like to be on their own photos. Of course photographers became that because that way they could avoid being on family photos... Selfies have existed since people started taking photos, it's just the name that's new. Pentax wants to cash in on that... well, if that sells cameras, by all means.


I fully agree Marktax.


Funny story monochrome. I thought it was intentionally that way... the point of the LEDs being to indicate the status of the self timer for example.


As for touchscreen etc... perhaps the K-S1 was released premature? It should have WiFi built in to make (more) sense for who they supposedly aimed it at, yet it doesn't.
02-11-2015, 11:26 AM   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by Not a Number Quote
They're not covered when using the self-timer or the camera turned around for a "selfie". The primary function of the lights is for the self-timer function and face recognition counts in "selfies".
Yes, we know that - the implication was the secondary uses were not initially design features.
02-11-2015, 11:31 AM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Well if you think that double the juice and versatility is overrated, that's an opinion that I do not share (for what it's worth).

Personally I don't care all that much about AAs but then I don't understand why they are not using D-Li190 instead of D-Li109. Li90 has almost twice the density of the 109...
I'm coming from the D-Li90, which has enough juice. If the 109 is half that, I can understand the complaints. The D-Li90 maybe didn't find enough space in the grip? I don't know. 4 AAs take up significantly more space than a D-Li90, don't they? Am I right in the assumption that the D-Li109 slot of the K-30 and 50 was quite a bit bigger than the battery itself, cut out to fit AAs? Maybe the K-S2 has only enough space for only the 109, and not even the 90? They could have made the grip bigger, but maybe they didn't think it was worth it? In any case, USB charging would be useful. It wouldn't replace the lack of AA, but it could help out in many situations, including some where AA's would also not help. And it can be done without a bigger camera, I suppose...


Last edited by kadajawi; 02-11-2015 at 11:39 AM.
02-11-2015, 11:35 AM   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by jcdoss Quote
Asahiman has indicated that the hinged LCD like on the 645Z will most likely be used on the FF camera, too.
I believe the actual post was along the lines of, "what do you think of the (645z) LCD? It is possible. Hah Hah."
02-11-2015, 11:40 AM   #621
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I think the K-S1's primary design goal was to see how small they could make a K-mount camera, and that squeezed out a lot of other features, including integrated WiFi. I think the sort of "selfie" the designers had in mind was the age-old timed family/group portrait. The K-S2 may have had arm's length "selfies" more in mind, as a natural progression from the reversible LCD. In that sense, the K-S1 is a more traditional DSLR than the K-S2.

---------- Post added 02-11-15 at 01:47 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I'm coming from the D-Li90, which has enough juice. If the 109 is half that, I can understand the complaints. The D-Li90 maybe didn't find enough space in the grip? I don't know. 4 AAs take up significantly more space than a D-Li90, don't they? Am I right in the assumption that the D-Li109 slot of the K-30 and 50 was quite a bit bigger than the battery itself, cut out to fit AAs? Maybe the K-S2 has only enough space for only the 109, and not even the 90? They could have made the grip bigger, but maybe they didn't think it was worth it? In any case, USB charging would be useful. It wouldn't replace the lack of AA, but it could help out in many situations, including some where AA's would also not help. And it can be done without a bigger camera, I suppose...
The spaces around the Li-109 in the K-r/30/50/500 are nearly as big as the battery itself, so the AA or Li-90 would require about twice the volume in the body, over the Li-109. The tilt/flip LCD pocket placed a new demand on volume that may have squeezed out the AA capability.
02-11-2015, 12:03 PM   #622
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
The tilt/flip LCD pocket placed a new demand on volume that may have squeezed out the AA capability.
Thinking about the internal constraints of design is very correct. K-S1 indeed might have been an exercise in that regard. If there is one thing paramount in the Pentax heritage, it is compactness of form and internal space efficiencies to get there. That's why the bodies always feel like robust little tanks. People claim they play catch-up with canikons, but in this area Pentax has had to take second place to none.
02-11-2015, 12:18 PM   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
Thinking about the internal constraints of design is very correct. K-S1 indeed might have been an exercise in that regard. If there is one thing paramount in the Pentax heritage, it is compactness of form and internal space efficiencies to get there. That's why the bodies always feel like robust little tanks. People claim they play catch-up with canikons, but in this area Pentax has had to take second place to none.
That is until Canon released the 100D. Damn is that thing TINY. Of course the viewfinder is a bit rubbish (as to be expected of Canon), but apart from that it seems to be a nice camera, and not a trade off. It doesn't feel as bad as a 1x00D series camera for example, more like 2 or 3 digit Canons.



Wasn't the K-S2 significantly smaller than the K-50? That may explain why they had to drop AA. The flippy screen is more of an issue in terms of thickness I think, as in the screen assembly takes up more space from the point where the sensor is (that being said there are smartphones that are less than 5mm thick and still pack a punch... decent CPU, there's a battery in there, and a screen, 2 cameras, and a layer of glass...). I doubt that there are big display related components in the grip, where the battery would sit.

02-11-2015, 12:39 PM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marktax Quote
Thinking about the internal constraints of design is very correct. K-S1 indeed might have been an exercise in that regard. If there is one thing paramount in the Pentax heritage, it is compactness of form and internal space efficiencies to get there. That's why the bodies always feel like robust little tanks. People claim they play catch-up with canikons, but in this area Pentax has had to take second place to none.
During the later stages of the K-01 Wars, I argued that the K-01, already blasted for being too large, could not have a tilt/flip LCD without being even larger, BUT a normal-sized DSLR body with the circuitry squeezed to the right like the K-01 would be able to do it. Two years later, here it is. The LCD may be a little overbuilt, but that's not surprising for "new" technology. (New to Pentax DSLR designers, at least.)
02-11-2015, 12:42 PM   #625
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Flip screen is not hard to put on a camera, but a WR flip sreen requires some serious engineering. At least I think so
02-11-2015, 12:42 PM   #626
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You might have a hard time convincing Adam of that. He once wrote that when hands-on reviewers saw the K-S1 prototype they pointed out that the LED's on the grip would be covered up by the hand holding the camera. The (outside contract) designers apparently said something like, "Oh. <insert long pause> We didn't think of that."
Another example of non-photographers trying to design a tool when they don't actually have a clue. Sad, really, really sad.
02-11-2015, 12:48 PM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Wasn't the K-S2 significantly smaller than the K-50? That may explain why they had to drop AA. The flippy screen is more of an issue in terms of thickness I think, as in the screen assembly takes up more space from the point where the sensor is (that being said there are smartphones that are less than 5mm thick and still pack a punch... decent CPU, there's a battery in there, and a screen, 2 cameras, and a layer of glass...). I doubt that there are big display related components in the grip, where the battery would sit.
It's not much smaller than the K-50 - they straightened some curves and flattened some bulges on the ends, but the corners are about the same. In previous Pentax DSLRs, the main circuit board ran all the way across the back between the LCD and the SR chassis, with the battery on the end. The K-01 moved all the electronics to the right, and shifted the battery forward, but turned left-to-right. The K-S2 seems to follow that, but with the battery oriented front-to-rear.

EDIT K-50: 129x96.5x70 K-S2: 122.5x91x72.5



---------- Post added 02-11-15 at 02:54 PM ----------
QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Another example of non-photographers trying to design a tool when they don't actually have a clue. Sad, really, really sad.


Well, clearly there were some non-photographers involved on the K-S1, or they wouldn't have screwed up the AF/MF switch. All they had to do was turn it 90 degrees counter-clockwise (like the K-S2), and it would have been fine. (Although I still think the countdown LEDs are a clever and more intuitive way to do it than blink-blink-blink.)

Last edited by THoog; 02-11-2015 at 01:02 PM.
02-11-2015, 12:58 PM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Another example of non-photographers trying to design a tool when they don't actually have a clue. Sad, really, really sad.
Actually, I thought it rather funny in a tragic sort of way.Two hipster guys and a tall, cool woman are over the top excited about their neato eye-catching design and, and, and . . . . . .

Oh. <heartbeat, heartbeat, heartbeat> Didn't think of that.
QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
Well, clearly there were some non-photographers involved on the K-S1, or they wouldn't have screwed up the AF/MF switch. All they had to do was turn it 90 degrees counter-clockwise (like the K-S2), and it would have been fine. (Although I still think the countdown LEDs are a clever and more intuitive way to do it than blink-blink-blink.)
So do I - and I like that they're marketed as such better than if they were featured as disco lights.

But the story is nearly heartbreaking.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-11-2015 at 01:58 PM.
02-11-2015, 01:41 PM   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by THoog Quote
It's not much smaller than the K-50 - they straightened some curves and flattened some bulges on the ends, but the corners are about the same. In previous Pentax DSLRs, the main circuit board ran all the way across the back between the LCD and the SR chassis, with the battery on the end. The K-01 moved all the electronics to the right, and shifted the battery forward, but turned left-to-right. The K-S2 seems to follow that, but with the battery oriented front-to-rear.

EDIT K-50: 129x96.5x70 K-S2: 122.5x91x72.5



---------- Post added 02-11-15 at 02:54 PM ----------

Well, clearly there were some non-photographers involved on the K-S1, or they wouldn't have screwed up the AF/MF switch. All they had to do was turn it 90 degrees counter-clockwise (like the K-S2), and it would have been fine. (Although I still think the countdown LEDs are a clever and more intuitive way to do it than blink-blink-blink.)
Well, it is certainly closer to the K-S1 than it is to the K-50, no? The depth I don't care too much, since the largest part with a given image circle & bajonett is driven by the lens.

Dimensions (WxHxD)
K-S2: 122.5 x 91.0 x 72.5 mm
K-S1: 120 x 92.5 x 69.5 mm
K-50: 129 x 96.5 x 70 mm
02-11-2015, 01:56 PM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by UlrichSchiegg Quote
Well, it is certainly closer to the K-S1 than it is to the K-50, no?
I'd say no, despite what the numbers say.



I think the given width for the K-S1 includes the metal strap lug.
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