K-S2 is Coming

Docrwm · 02-06-2015, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by THoog

I picture them as a DPR review on steroids: "Yeah, the K-3 is the best APS-C ever, BUT it's APS-C". "Yeah, it has WR, IBIS, great battery life and ergonomics, and a near-silent shutter, BUT there aren't any f/1.2 primes for it." "Yeah, the Ricoh Booth was showing the new 645Z, BUT people weren't lined up like they were for the Nikon D750." (The negative always comes last.)

Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO.

**monochrome** · 02-06-2015, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO.

That's what I was referring to - I was appalled when I saw that.

**THoog** · 02-06-2015, 02:28 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Docrwm

Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO.

I gave up on them when they had to open their Photokina Ricoh booth report with pointing out that there wasn't a wait to see the K-3 (which was almost a year old, unlike the brand-new D750). Even if true, it was irrelevant, unnecessary, catty, and bordering on self-parody: "hmmmm, how can we possibly squeeze a negative slant into the first page of the booth report?"

Clearly, someone at Pentax kicked their dog and insulted their momma (or vice-versa), and they will take the insult to their grave.

Docrwm · 02-06-2015, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

That's what I was referring to - I was appalled when I saw that.

Again, gratuitous shots are one of their specialties when it comes to Pentax. Wonder what their problem is with Pentax?

**NZ_Ross** · 02-06-2015, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO.

I barely visit there now - it is pretty clear where they focus their reviews, shown by how quickly they get reviews out for individual cameras. Every site has an 'angle' now - so it is just working out what it is an accommodating that into what you read.

At least here at PF one can have no doubt about the angle

**monochrome** · 02-06-2015, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Again, gratuitous shots are one of their specialties when it comes to Pentax. Wonder what their problem is with Pentax?

DK - but asahi man commented in a Reply that he would be making all his comments at DPR. My bookmark now goes straight to the Pentax SLR Forum. No more front page.

ChristianRock · 02-06-2015, 02:49 PM

Now why would asahi man comment in DPR? Why support that place?

By the way - Canon is very shrewd on how they get the favor of publications and media and even certain sold-out photographers. Just look at all the "hands-on first impressions" at DPR right now - most are Canon. I don't remember the last time I saw a first hands on impression of a Pentax this quickly.

jcdoss · 02-06-2015, 02:52 PM

You could probably bookmark his page directly if you want. I think that place is even more toxic than it was when I frequented it several years ago.

asahi man: Member profile: Digital Photography Review

ChristianRock · 02-06-2015, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by jcdoss

You could probably bookmark his page directly if you want. I think that place is even more toxic than it was when I frequented it several years ago.

asahi man: Member profile: Digital Photography Review

Thanks. Bookmarked

GibbyTheMole · 02-06-2015, 03:07 PM

Looks like they fixed everything that made the first one kind of a dud. (Crappy grip, weird mode ring on the back instead of a dial on top, odd control wheel, disco light show) This one's a nice looking camera, and everything is laid out like a camera should be. Nice job, Pentax! :-)

Imp · 02-06-2015, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by bobmaxja

It'seem peoples do not remember what Pentax said about the new S line

But why is Pentax replacing the K-50 with the S line??

kadajawi · 02-06-2015, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

Agree about the ergonomics of MILCs. There's nothing that keeps them from being designed very well. About the EVF... the best ones still only display 1 to 2 MP which equates to a very modestly sized 1080P monitor (actually, about 84% width of a 1080P monitor). Compare that to 16 to 36 MP being recorded by the sensor and you quickly realize that you're not really seeing what you're getting. From a compositional standpoint, yes, absolutely it's good. Dynamic range of a sensor is around 13 EV, most of which is viewable through an OVF. Displayable dynamic range of an EVF? Significantly less than the 13 EVs the sensor can record.

I'm not against EVFs, either. One of my cameras has one.

What is the resolution that my eye can resolve over the area that the OVF of my APS-C camera has in my field of view? I suppose it won't be much higher... I know that I can't distinguish the dots on my smartphones 5" screen, unless I go really close and take off my glasses (otherwise focusing becomes an issue).

Basically: If I don't see dots in the viewfinder, and it looks sharp, then the resolution is enough. I don't need a 20 MP EVF viewfinder.

As for dynamic range... the dynamic range of an OVF is that of your eyes, and that is far beyond the 13 EV of the sensor can do. Basically your eye thinks "hey, it's fine", but the sensor can't manage it. An EVF should be closer to that, though at this point it may not have the 13 EV range (and it displays a processed version of the image, which limits the dynamic range). However it should be eventually technically possible to match the dynamic range of the sensor (OLED could be able to do that, it has a very high contrast and can produce very saturated images, the question is if the gradations in between are fine enough to give it 13 EV... and you can compress it a bit), and to display a video feed that has that dynamic range.

dyoon153 · 02-06-2015, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Imp

But why is Pentax replacing the K-50 with the S line??

I'm kind of hoping it is not the replacement of K-50, and I don't think we've seen/heard enough from Ricoh/Pentax yet about K-XX line is done for good.

robtcorl · 02-06-2015, 03:39 PM - **5 Likes**

I'm not sure why some worry so much about what a camera is, or is not, replacing.
Shouldn't they all be evaluated on what are, and if it's right for you?
Truly not trying to be snide with my comment.

Quicksand · 02-06-2015, 03:44 PM

To be honest, someday I'd like to have an EVF that:

Has a high frame rate and minimal latency
Is high enough in resolution that I don't see pixels
Is big and bright with decent eye relief like an old Pentax film SLR
Has great dynamic range BUT ALSO can tone-map the scene so I can see details in both bright and dark areas while composing
Is configurable enough to disable or adjust the tone-mapping, and can be used in either exposure-matching WYSIWYG mode or auto-gain mode -- and I want a dedicated toggle button for that
Doesn't drain my battery too badly
I suppose histograms, composition/crop overlays, and focus peaking should go without saying

Does this exist yet? If not, I'll stick to the OVF until it does.

02-06-2015, 02:28 PM - 1 Like	#258
THoog Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,685	Originally posted by Docrwm Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO. I gave up on them when they had to open their Photokina Ricoh booth report with pointing out that there wasn't a wait to see the K-3 (which was almost a year old, unlike the brand-new D750). Even if true, it was irrelevant, unnecessary, catty, and bordering on self-parody: "hmmmm, how can we possibly squeeze a negative slant into the first page of the booth report?" Clearly, someone at Pentax kicked their dog and insulted their momma (or vice-versa), and they will take the insult to their grave. Last edited by THoog; 02-06-2015 at 02:54 PM.

02-06-2015, 03:39 PM - 5 Likes	#269
robtcorl Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: St Louis, MO Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,606	I'm not sure why some worry so much about what a camera is, or is not, replacing. Shouldn't they all be evaluated on what are, and if it's right for you? Truly not trying to be snide with my comment. Last edited by robtcorl; 02-06-2015 at 04:10 PM. Reason: typo

02-06-2015, 03:44 PM	#270
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	To be honest, someday I'd like to have an EVF that: Has a high frame rate and minimal latency Is high enough in resolution that I don't see pixels Is big and bright with decent eye relief like an old Pentax film SLR Has great dynamic range BUT ALSO can tone-map the scene so I can see details in both bright and dark areas while composing Is configurable enough to disable or adjust the tone-mapping, and can be used in either exposure-matching WYSIWYG mode or auto-gain mode -- and I want a dedicated toggle button for that Doesn't drain my battery too badly I suppose histograms, composition/crop overlays, and focus peaking should go without saying Does this exist yet? If not, I'll stick to the OVF until it does.

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02-06-2015, 02:21 PM	#256
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by THoog I picture them as a DPR review on steroids: "Yeah, the K-3 is the best APS-C ever, BUT it's APS-C". "Yeah, it has WR, IBIS, great battery life and ergonomics, and a near-silent shutter, BUT there aren't any f/1.2 primes for it." "Yeah, the Ricoh Booth was showing the new 645Z, BUT people weren't lined up like they were for the Nikon D750." (The negative always comes last.) Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO.

02-06-2015, 02:23 PM	#257
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Docrwm Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO. That's what I was referring to - I was appalled when I saw that.

02-06-2015, 02:28 PM	#259
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by monochrome That's what I was referring to - I was appalled when I saw that. Again, gratuitous shots are one of their specialties when it comes to Pentax. Wonder what their problem is with Pentax?

02-06-2015, 02:30 PM	#260
NZ_Ross Kiwi Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Timaru Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,225	Originally posted by Docrwm Their comment about how there was a FF in 2001 that never materialized was completely unnecessary. I don't often comment about them but that was out of line IMHO. I barely visit there now - it is pretty clear where they focus their reviews, shown by how quickly they get reviews out for individual cameras. Every site has an 'angle' now - so it is just working out what it is an accommodating that into what you read. At least here at PF one can have no doubt about the angle

02-06-2015, 02:35 PM	#261
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Docrwm Again, gratuitous shots are one of their specialties when it comes to Pentax. Wonder what their problem is with Pentax? DK - but asahi man commented in a Reply that he would be making all his comments at DPR. My bookmark now goes straight to the Pentax SLR Forum. No more front page.

02-06-2015, 02:49 PM	#262
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Now why would asahi man comment in DPR? Why support that place? By the way - Canon is very shrewd on how they get the favor of publications and media and even certain sold-out photographers. Just look at all the "hands-on first impressions" at DPR right now - most are Canon. I don't remember the last time I saw a first hands on impression of a Pentax this quickly.

02-06-2015, 02:52 PM	#263
jcdoss Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Ingelheim am Rhein, Germany Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,761	You could probably bookmark his page directly if you want. I think that place is even more toxic than it was when I frequented it several years ago. asahi man: Member profile: Digital Photography Review

02-06-2015, 02:56 PM	#264
ChristianRock Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: People's Republic of America Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,910	Originally posted by jcdoss You could probably bookmark his page directly if you want. I think that place is even more toxic than it was when I frequented it several years ago. asahi man: Member profile: Digital Photography Review Thanks. Bookmarked

02-06-2015, 03:07 PM	#265
GibbyTheMole Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Iowa Photos: Albums Posts: 2,275	Looks like they fixed everything that made the first one kind of a dud. (Crappy grip, weird mode ring on the back instead of a dial on top, odd control wheel, disco light show) This one's a nice looking camera, and everything is laid out like a camera should be. Nice job, Pentax! :-)

02-06-2015, 03:12 PM	#266
Imp Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Washington, DC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,749	Originally posted by bobmaxja It'seem peoples do not remember what Pentax said about the new S line But why is Pentax replacing the K-50 with the S line??

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02-06-2015, 03:16 PM	#267
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by IchabodCrane Agree about the ergonomics of MILCs. There's nothing that keeps them from being designed very well. About the EVF... the best ones still only display 1 to 2 MP which equates to a very modestly sized 1080P monitor (actually, about 84% width of a 1080P monitor). Compare that to 16 to 36 MP being recorded by the sensor and you quickly realize that you're not really seeing what you're getting. From a compositional standpoint, yes, absolutely it's good. Dynamic range of a sensor is around 13 EV, most of which is viewable through an OVF. Displayable dynamic range of an EVF? Significantly less than the 13 EVs the sensor can record. I'm not against EVFs, either. One of my cameras has one. What is the resolution that my eye can resolve over the area that the OVF of my APS-C camera has in my field of view? I suppose it won't be much higher... I know that I can't distinguish the dots on my smartphones 5" screen, unless I go really close and take off my glasses (otherwise focusing becomes an issue). Basically: If I don't see dots in the viewfinder, and it looks sharp, then the resolution is enough. I don't need a 20 MP EVF viewfinder. As for dynamic range... the dynamic range of an OVF is that of your eyes, and that is far beyond the 13 EV of the sensor can do. Basically your eye thinks "hey, it's fine", but the sensor can't manage it. An EVF should be closer to that, though at this point it may not have the 13 EV range (and it displays a processed version of the image, which limits the dynamic range). However it should be eventually technically possible to match the dynamic range of the sensor (OLED could be able to do that, it has a very high contrast and can produce very saturated images, the question is if the gradations in between are fine enough to give it 13 EV... and you can compress it a bit), and to display a video feed that has that dynamic range.

02-06-2015, 03:34 PM	#268
dyoon153 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 84	Originally posted by Imp But why is Pentax replacing the K-50 with the S line?? I'm kind of hoping it is not the replacement of K-50, and I don't think we've seen/heard enough from Ricoh/Pentax yet about K-XX line is done for good.