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02-16-2015, 11:34 PM   #151
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@JPT, yes "most high end cameras can be printed very large to be chewed at normal distances. Looks like 8 effective Mpixels are enough.... perhaps 3 x 8 = 24Mp, assuming that RGB bayer matrix does not directly translate into 3x resolution. Images look better at 24Mp compared to 10Mp. I think it is not actually needed to have an accurate sensor shifting. Just having multiple exposures (also as we do when we stitch) is equivalent to having a larger sensor area. But it implies a tradeoff on the shutter speed. Is it better to increase resolution or tone range? At what point is more IQ needed if the eye is not able to see it ?

02-16-2015, 11:48 PM   #152
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In any case, we should be fixed soon with what Pentax R&D has add to its already upmost sensorshift technology : i do prefer O-Gps drive, sensor shift, and AA simulation to one more stop stabilisation. Which by no means is a great challenge when adressing such dwarf sensor as m43.
02-17-2015, 04:06 AM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I think it is not actually needed to have an accurate sensor shifting. Just having multiple exposures (also as we do when we stitch) is equivalent to having a larger sensor area.
Class A introduced the distintion between sensel shift and pixel shift into this thread.

Everybody can experiment with pixel shift and the results aren't too impressive.

However, what we could establish is that Olympus does sensel shift and very well indeed. The results do outperform pixel shift in an obvious way (to me).

I don't know what JPT did see, but results I could inspect online (like DPR's 1:1 comparisons at 36MP with D810 and A7r) point to a slight advantage for Olympus. It comes from skipping demosaicing and combining two Foveon-quality images.

So, the remark about Foveon by Pentax makes sense. But Olympus went beyond both that Foveon remark and beyond Sigma's Foveon quality too.

Right now, all of this is not that relevant because of the limitations (tripod etc.). But should Olympus succeed to realize their promise and make all 8 exposures within 1/60s (or less) w/o need for a tripod then we may have seen the advent of an interesting new technology.

Nevertheless, the brute force approach of simply squeezing 36, 50 or 100 MP into a large enough sensor will remain much more versatile.
02-17-2015, 08:30 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
Pentax would be wise to include a free firmware upgrade to enable this feature -- if only to prevent people from "jumping ship". It would also demonstrate that they are thinking about their customers first. And finally, it might even get a few from other manufacturers to "jump ship" to Pentax.

Michael
Is there any evidence that the K-3 can support this feature? Looking at the Olympus implementation of the technology it requires an electronic shutter and it would take a huge amount of processing power to shoot and merge 8 images into a single file. While it might be possible for Ricoh to implement the feature as far as the SR is concerned, I haven't seen anything to think the K-3 has the rest of the hardware needed to make i work. Has Ricoh said or implied that the technology can be implemented in the K-3?

02-17-2015, 10:46 AM - 1 Like   #155
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The merging doesn't have to happen in camera.
02-17-2015, 11:42 AM   #156
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I think it should happen in camera and the result has to be a tiff or something useful, not a jpg. Technically it doesn't has to of course, but nevertheless that's how I feel about it.
02-17-2015, 01:12 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The merging doesn't have to happen in camera.
Very true. But if the solution is Pentax-specific then we can expect little to no support from the likes of DxO or Adobe to modify their products to deal with merging N files at RAW conversion time. Just look at how much support is out there for the combo-of-three-HDR-RAW-files-into-one!

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02-17-2015, 01:22 PM   #158
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Pentax could package the 8 or whatever RAW files into a single compressed file for output and PDCU could be updated to do the processing on computer. To process 8 files into one TIFF on camera could take quite a long time... and the TIFF file would be huge.

02-17-2015, 02:59 PM   #159
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I wouldn't mind having to run a program that goes through a directory and converts all such files into regular raw files, before importing them into Lightroom.


Having the processing done in the camera probably means it will take a long time, consume battery and the quality won't be as good.
02-17-2015, 03:03 PM   #160
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I guess this would lead to 16-bit RAW images.
02-17-2015, 04:12 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I wouldn't mind having to run a program that goes through a directory and converts all such files into regular raw files, before importing them into Lightroom.
doubtful that in post that multiple RAWs would be converted into yet another "raw". More likely would be 16bit TIFF (or 32bit TIFF if HDR compositing were added).

M
02-17-2015, 05:37 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Many of us were hoping Pentax would be the first with the pixel shift thing.
...except for those of us that realize that it is only useful for perfectly stationary subjects.

Gimmick with a capital "G"


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02-17-2015, 05:56 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
doubtful that in post that multiple RAWs would be converted into yet another "raw". More likely would be 16bit TIFF (or 32bit TIFF if HDR compositing were added).

M
TIFF and raw files are very similar. IIRC regular raw files are just grey scale TIFFs...


Wasn't there news recently that Sony was working on a sensor that would do something like this, but incredibly fast? Think fast enough for video...?
02-17-2015, 06:13 PM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJSfoto1956 Quote
doubtful that in post that multiple RAWs would be converted into yet another "raw". More likely would be 16bit TIFF (or 32bit TIFF if HDR compositing were added).

M
I'm thinking more like a proprietary compressed file that PDCU can open (so that it saves space on camera, like a compressed RAW).

Or just a separate folder with the 8 RAWs and an instruction file for PDCU.
02-17-2015, 11:46 PM - 1 Like   #165
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If it was about doing super resolution with post processing, it already exists: using longer focal length + stitching.
If super resolution would be provided, it should be computed by the camera and output one high resolution file.
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