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02-08-2015, 01:21 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
I don't see a good reason why you couldn't do this with in-lens stabilization. You'd need to re-align the images so the process wouldn't be quite the same, but I don't see any other impediment? Maybe the camera can't control the in-lens stabilization?

There is software that combines multiple handheld images into one with higher resolution, or grabs multiple lower res frames from video and mashes it into one higher resolution frame. Some pretty neat processing is possible, I'm not sure of how the computational costs relate to in-camera processing power though.
If the sensor doesn't move, how are you going to get multiple images? I guess I just don't understand what you are saying.

02-08-2015, 01:24 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If the sensor doesn't move, how are you going to get multiple images? I guess I just don't understand what you are saying.
By having the lens move. You take several photos, this time the lens moves. Has the same effect as having the sensor move, just that it is not as precise.
02-08-2015, 01:33 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If the sensor doesn't move, how are you going to get multiple images? I guess I just don't understand what you are saying.
In body SR moves the sensor around, letting you grab slightly offset images. In lens stabilization can move the projected image around letting the sensor grab slightly offset images. On the surface they seem pretty equivalent for an application like this?

Does in-lens allow the same degree of control? (I'd expect?) Maybe the camera has no input in what this generation of in-lens stabilization does (I've no idea!). I understand there are small optical penalties with swinging the stabilization element around, but we're really looking at tiny distances relative to what either stabilization system should be capable of (same problem with in-body, but sub-pixel shifts are tiny). Much of the heavy computing can probably be skipped as you'd be sampling images in a pre-determined way.
02-08-2015, 01:48 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Does in-lens allow the same degree of control? (I'd expect?)
It has to, otherwise it wouldn't work as a stabilizer either.

---------- Post added 02-08-2015 at 09:54 PM ----------

As for the 12Mp suggestion, there is now way I would be interested in such a low resolution camera. If you want 12Mp, down sample and there you go. The other way around though, up sample, does not work that well.

02-08-2015, 01:59 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by geo444 Quote
.

before Olympus... was Hasselblad :
www.dpreview.com/articles/4410648565/hasselblad-unveils-pixel-shifting-200mp-h5d-200c-ms

and before Hasselblad... was Apple first ? :
Apple aiming to use image stabilization to create high-resolution images: Connect

No, before... was Astrophotography, where Turbulence and Guiding Errors randomly Shift your Pixels !
plus the Stacking techniques that : -1) increase the Resolution and -2) decrease the Noise
see those guys doing fine Mars, Jupiter and Saturn pics with just WebCams !
The Software since 2001 : www.astronomie.be/registax/

and also DeepSkyStacker Drizzle :
DeepSkyStacker - Technical Info


I'd like to remind of Nokia808PureView. A smartphone with 41MP 1/1.2" CMOS sensor camera and Pureview oversampling technology. Released in 2012.
02-08-2015, 02:32 PM   #66
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And, as already stated, do not forget the forefather: Ricoh RDC-7

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/support/brochure/pdf/rdc7.pdf

02-08-2015, 02:46 PM   #67
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A firmware for the K-5,K-511,K511s would be most welcome.👍
02-08-2015, 02:56 PM   #68
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just at least do it for the newer tech in the K5IIS K5II and K3

that would be more then enough for me

02-08-2015, 02:58 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
In body SR moves the sensor around, letting you grab slightly offset images. In lens stabilization can move the projected image around letting the sensor grab slightly offset images. On the surface they seem pretty equivalent for an application like this?

Does in-lens allow the same degree of control? (I'd expect?) Maybe the camera has no input in what this generation of in-lens stabilization does (I've no idea!). I understand there are small optical penalties with swinging the stabilization element around, but we're really looking at tiny distances relative to what either stabilization system should be capable of (same problem with in-body, but sub-pixel shifts are tiny). Much of the heavy computing can probably be skipped as you'd be sampling images in a pre-determined way.
As far as I can tell, the ability to control the sensor movement with precisely known micron-scale distances in Pentax's system came with the development of the K-3's AA simulator. And one would need to move the sensor known distances at the pixel-size level in order to deconvolute the resulting image files.

I don't think in-lens stabilization systems know how many pixels of correction they are applying, just that it corrects the right amount for lens movement. The lens doesn't even know the number of pixels in the camera, as far as I know. So at the least, lens-camera communication would have to be added to 1) allow lens correction element movements of known image distance on the sensor, and 2) know when it's OK to move to the next position in sequence.
02-08-2015, 03:00 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
In body SR moves the sensor around, letting you grab slightly offset images. In lens stabilization can move the projected image around letting the sensor grab slightly offset images. On the surface they seem pretty equivalent for an application like this?

Does in-lens allow the same degree of control? (I'd expect?) Maybe the camera has no input in what this generation of in-lens stabilization does (I've no idea!). I understand there are small optical penalties with swinging the stabilization element around, but we're really looking at tiny distances relative to what either stabilization system should be capable of (same problem with in-body, but sub-pixel shifts are tiny). Much of the heavy computing can probably be skipped as you'd be sampling images in a pre-determined way.
Just for some reason, I think the lens stabilization element wouldn't have as precise control and that it would vary by lens. But I don't really know. Maybe Canon and Nikon will add this soon, although considering that there are a lot of lenses without optical stabilization maybe it wouldn't be as big a deal.
02-08-2015, 03:32 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by IsaacT Quote
Could you imagine if Pentax packed the new FF with something like 40-50MP and then threw in this sensor shift pixel multiplier? Those would be huge images! I would love to get those home after a long shoot and wait for awhile for them to load in LR! Worth the wait, 2015
Heck, think of the possibilities with the 645Z!
02-08-2015, 03:34 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by dngr Quote
Heck, think of the possibilities with the 645Z!
That has a fixed sensor.
02-08-2015, 03:37 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
That has a fixed sensor.
Newly introduced! Pentax 645Z interactive Gimbal system! It talks with the camera to move the camera in precisely 1 pixel in each direction!
02-08-2015, 03:39 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
That has a fixed sensor.
Ah, my bad. Carry on!
02-08-2015, 03:43 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Newly introduced! Pentax 645Z interactive Gimbal system! It talks with the camera to move the camera in precisely 1 pixel in each direction!
Perhaps the camera will send an electric jolt through its grip, contracting your muscles just enough to move the camera the required distance

This "super resolution" thing could be done in a 645z mkII without a full SR system - perhaps using piezo elements. But so far there's no signs of it happening.
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