Unveiling of the Full Frame Prototype

Kunzite · 02-13-2015, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Yassarian

If half a year before going to production they still have not finalized the chassis/body *design*, they certainly would not be able to sell the camera half a year later.

No offence, but the people who actually do the job told us the camera will be ready by the end of the year. I would rather believe them, than empty speculation.

Half a year represent about 1/6th of a camera development lifecycle.

Yassarian · 02-13-2015, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

No offence, but the people who actually do the job told us the camera will be ready by the end of the year. I would rather believe them, than empty speculation.

Half a year represent about 1/6th of a camera development lifecycle.

none taken, this is all speculation, after all. However I wouldn't say the marketing folks at a trade show are the ones who actually do the job. They are responsible for drumming up interest and hyping up a product. Deadlines come and go, I wouldn't put much stock in it until they actually show a working prototype. The fact that they did NOT show a working prototype causes me to *speculate* that they are not that far in the development cycle yet. Else why wouldn't they show at least a more advanced prototype than a lump of plastic? I'm pretty sure they are NOT afraid of their competitors stealing their trade secrets, seeing where Pentax's market position is. If anything Pentax is *EAGER* to get the news out that they will have a FF in the future.

It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic... So IMO, it's all speculation at this point. If you believe the marketing folks says that you'll be able to get this camera by EOY, that's fine - I am more realistic/pessimistic and based on what they have publicly shown, it sure appears iffy.

Enrique S Toso · 02-13-2015, 09:25 AM

About the mpx....look the KS2, they could give the camera 24mpx but they didnt, because it will steal sales fron K3. Same on the KFF and the 645Z. It will be 30 something mpx, dont be afraid.

And about the other FF prototype...really?? it was another era, there wasnt the 2 telephoto, and the roadmap, and a bunch of pentaxians wanting the camera. Actually digital cameras were in utero compared with film resolution in that time.

aleonx3 · 02-13-2015, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by Yassarian

... snipped...
It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic...

More reasons why they have to be more conservative this time... previous failure was not their fault (but rather sensor supplier). Time will tell.

Yassarian · 02-13-2015, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by Enrique S Toso

About the mpx....look the KS2, they could give the camera 24mpx but they didnt, because it will steal sales fron K3. Same on the KFF and the 645Z. It will be 30 something mpx, dont be afraid.

And about the other FF prototype...really?? it was another era, there wasnt the 2 telephoto, and the roadmap, and a bunch of pentaxians wanting the camera. Actually digital cameras were in utero compared with film resolution in that time.

Yes they are definitely much more committed this time around. My point isn't whether they will release a camera at all, but WHEN. If they cancel this project this time, might as well just kiss the brand goodbye. I waited for a long time for a FF from Pentax, I would reserve my excitement for when there's something more concrete than a lump of plastic and marketing folks giving vague promises with nothing to back up... Hopefully the interview will yield more answers than questions.

Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all.

Belnan · 02-13-2015, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Yassarian

Yes they are definitely much more committed this time around. My point isn't whether they will release a camera at all, but WHEN. If they cancel this project this time, might as well just kiss the brand goodbye. I waited for a long time for a FF from Pentax, I would reserve my excitement for when there's something more concrete than a lump of plastic and marketing folks giving vague promises with nothing to back up... Hopefully the interview will yield more answers than questions.

Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all.

If Pentax has said by end of year, there is a very good chance it will be before then. Most likely it will be officially anounced end of summer with deliver within a couple months. Seems to be the trend with Pentax these days. Who knows it could be sooner.

windhorse · 02-13-2015, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by repaap

I could bet that it will be 36 mp. For me 24 could be enough thou.

+1
24mp + IS would be easier to hand hold than 36mp, right?

Am I the only one who doesn´t want to have to use this thing on a tripod all the time?

My hope is FF Pentax will stand out from the latest Canikon DSLRs or mirrorless options & existing Pentax APS-C cameras like the K-5 by combining the higher image quality & low light capabaility of a FF sensor with OVF and in-body IS in a smallish body so I can use it instead of just admiring the specs.

**monochrome** · 02-13-2015, 09:49 AM

Originally posted by Yassarian

none taken, this is all speculation, after all. However I wouldn't say the marketing folks at a trade show are the ones who actually do the job. They are responsible for drumming up interest and hyping up a product. Deadlines come and go, I wouldn't put much stock in it until they actually show a working prototype. The fact that they did NOT show a working prototype causes me to *speculate* that they are not that far in the development cycle yet. Else why wouldn't they show at least a more advanced prototype than a lump of plastic? I'm pretty sure they are NOT afraid of their competitors stealing their trade secrets, seeing where Pentax's market position is. If anything Pentax is *EAGER* to get the news out that they will have a FF in the future.

It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic... So IMO, it's all speculation at this point. If you believe the marketing folks says that you'll be able to get this camera by EOY, that's fine - I am more realistic/pessimistic and based on what they have publicly shown, it sure appears iffy.

Originally posted by Yassarian

Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all.

Uhmm - you are just wrong. Full Stop.

Cynog Ap Brychan · 02-13-2015, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by windhorse

24mp + IS would be easier to hand hold than 36mp, right?

No, you would just see more shake-induced blur at the pixel level, not at normal print sizes. That said, i don't have any trouble hand holding the D810, even with unstabilised lenses.

Mike.P® · 02-13-2015, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by derekkite

I wish the K-3 had the option of a different color trim. I have two bodies and would like some easy means of telling them apart.

I had the same thought so in preparation I sold my K-3 and bought a K-5IIs instead.

---------- Post added 02-13-2015 at 07:04 PM ----------

Originally posted by monochrome

Uhmm - you are just wrong. Full Stop.

Exactly, I mean it's not like Pentax have missed a promised deadline before .... is it?

**monochrome** · 02-13-2015, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Mike.P®

Exactly, I mean it's not like Pentax have missed a promised deadline before .... is it?

How many deadline promises has Ricoh made?
How many deadline promises has Ricoh missed?

If they said, "By the end of the year," they meant by the end of the year. That means the dealer holiday order period starts, well . . . . . . right about, uhhhmm, NOW.

**robbiec** · 02-13-2015, 10:40 AM - **2 Likes**

We are a miserable pessimistic bunch. Ricoh Pentax are a very different outfit from Pentax Pentax or Hoya Pentax for that matter. The FF camera is in hand, and will be delivered before the end of the year as they have stated. We have updated roadmaps for lenses, and they are working through them step by step, the range is constantly being refined and I for one am very happy with how Ricoh is handling the Pentax brand from a product delivery standpoint. More work is needed for marketing but that also will come in time. Build the product range, get it to state where they can confidently go toe to toe with the competition first and then market / target the segments they have or are building the range to. Patience people, Rome was not built in a day remember.

windhorse · 02-13-2015, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

No, you would just see more shake-induced blur at the pixel level, not at normal print sizes. That said, i don't have any trouble hand holding the D810, even with unstabilised lenses.

so maybe it is me that needs in-body IS rather than the camera

Cynog Ap Brychan · 02-13-2015, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by windhorse

so maybe it is me that needs in-body IS rather than the camera

Good one! I should really have said that I don't get any more blur with the D810 than any of my other cameras. I have to remember to keep the shutter speed commensurate with the lens in use, though,

windhorse · 02-13-2015, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by robbiec

More work is needed for marketing but that also will come in time. Build the product range, get it to state where they can confidently go toe to toe with the competition first and then market / target the segments they have or are building the range to.

since when has product development preceded marketing i thought it is the other way around ie figure out what you can sell then develop a product to match the specs

02-13-2015, 10:32 AM	#161
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Mike.P® Exactly, I mean it's not like Pentax have missed a promised deadline before .... is it? How many deadline promises has Ricoh made? How many deadline promises has Ricoh missed? If they said, "By the end of the year," they meant by the end of the year. That means the dealer holiday order period starts, well . . . . . . right about, uhhhmm, NOW.

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02-13-2015, 07:57 AM	#151
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,100	Originally posted by Yassarian If half a year before going to production they still have not finalized the chassis/body design, they certainly would not be able to sell the camera half a year later. No offence, but the people who actually do the job told us the camera will be ready by the end of the year. I would rather believe them, than empty speculation. Half a year represent about 1/6th of a camera development lifecycle.

02-13-2015, 09:11 AM	#152
Yassarian Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 72	Originally posted by Kunzite No offence, but the people who actually do the job told us the camera will be ready by the end of the year. I would rather believe them, than empty speculation. Half a year represent about 1/6th of a camera development lifecycle. none taken, this is all speculation, after all. However I wouldn't say the marketing folks at a trade show are the ones who actually do the job. They are responsible for drumming up interest and hyping up a product. Deadlines come and go, I wouldn't put much stock in it until they actually show a working prototype. The fact that they did NOT show a working prototype causes me to speculate that they are not that far in the development cycle yet. Else why wouldn't they show at least a more advanced prototype than a lump of plastic? I'm pretty sure they are NOT afraid of their competitors stealing their trade secrets, seeing where Pentax's market position is. If anything Pentax is EAGER to get the news out that they will have a FF in the future. It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic... So IMO, it's all speculation at this point. If you believe the marketing folks says that you'll be able to get this camera by EOY, that's fine - I am more realistic/pessimistic and based on what they have publicly shown, it sure appears iffy.

02-13-2015, 09:25 AM	#153
Enrique S Toso Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Mendoza - Argentina Posts: 140	About the mpx....look the KS2, they could give the camera 24mpx but they didnt, because it will steal sales fron K3. Same on the KFF and the 645Z. It will be 30 something mpx, dont be afraid. And about the other FF prototype...really?? it was another era, there wasnt the 2 telephoto, and the roadmap, and a bunch of pentaxians wanting the camera. Actually digital cameras were in utero compared with film resolution in that time.

02-13-2015, 09:29 AM	#154
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Yassarian ... snipped... It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic... More reasons why they have to be more conservative this time... previous failure was not their fault (but rather sensor supplier). Time will tell.

02-13-2015, 09:30 AM	#155
Yassarian Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 72	Originally posted by Enrique S Toso About the mpx....look the KS2, they could give the camera 24mpx but they didnt, because it will steal sales fron K3. Same on the KFF and the 645Z. It will be 30 something mpx, dont be afraid. And about the other FF prototype...really?? it was another era, there wasnt the 2 telephoto, and the roadmap, and a bunch of pentaxians wanting the camera. Actually digital cameras were in utero compared with film resolution in that time. Yes they are definitely much more committed this time around. My point isn't whether they will release a camera at all, but WHEN. If they cancel this project this time, might as well just kiss the brand goodbye. I waited for a long time for a FF from Pentax, I would reserve my excitement for when there's something more concrete than a lump of plastic and marketing folks giving vague promises with nothing to back up... Hopefully the interview will yield more answers than questions. Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all.

02-13-2015, 09:39 AM	#156
Belnan Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Nova Scotia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,062	Originally posted by Yassarian Yes they are definitely much more committed this time around. My point isn't whether they will release a camera at all, but WHEN. If they cancel this project this time, might as well just kiss the brand goodbye. I waited for a long time for a FF from Pentax, I would reserve my excitement for when there's something more concrete than a lump of plastic and marketing folks giving vague promises with nothing to back up... Hopefully the interview will yield more answers than questions. Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all. If Pentax has said by end of year, there is a very good chance it will be before then. Most likely it will be officially anounced end of summer with deliver within a couple months. Seems to be the trend with Pentax these days. Who knows it could be sooner.

02-13-2015, 09:47 AM	#157
windhorse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 101	Originally posted by repaap I could bet that it will be 36 mp. For me 24 could be enough thou. +1 24mp + IS would be easier to hand hold than 36mp, right? Am I the only one who doesn´t want to have to use this thing on a tripod all the time? My hope is FF Pentax will stand out from the latest Canikon DSLRs or mirrorless options & existing Pentax APS-C cameras like the K-5 by combining the higher image quality & low light capabaility of a FF sensor with OVF and in-body IS in a smallish body so I can use it instead of just admiring the specs.

02-13-2015, 09:49 AM	#158
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Yassarian none taken, this is all speculation, after all. However I wouldn't say the marketing folks at a trade show are the ones who actually do the job. They are responsible for drumming up interest and hyping up a product. Deadlines come and go, I wouldn't put much stock in it until they actually show a working prototype. The fact that they did NOT show a working prototype causes me to speculate that they are not that far in the development cycle yet. Else why wouldn't they show at least a more advanced prototype than a lump of plastic? I'm pretty sure they are NOT afraid of their competitors stealing their trade secrets, seeing where Pentax's market position is. If anything Pentax is EAGER to get the news out that they will have a FF in the future. It's not like this is the first time they showed a FF prototype, right? And that other one was way more than a lump of plastic... So IMO, it's all speculation at this point. If you believe the marketing folks says that you'll be able to get this camera by EOY, that's fine - I am more realistic/pessimistic and based on what they have publicly shown, it sure appears iffy. Originally posted by Yassarian Optimistic about a FF, pessimistic about the deadline, that's all. Uhmm - you are just wrong. Full Stop.

02-13-2015, 09:55 AM	#159
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by windhorse 24mp + IS would be easier to hand hold than 36mp, right? No, you would just see more shake-induced blur at the pixel level, not at normal print sizes. That said, i don't have any trouble hand holding the D810, even with unstabilised lenses.

02-13-2015, 10:00 AM	#160
Mike.P® Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,150	Originally posted by derekkite I wish the K-3 had the option of a different color trim. I have two bodies and would like some easy means of telling them apart. I had the same thought so in preparation I sold my K-3 and bought a K-5IIs instead. ---------- Post added 02-13-2015 at 07:04 PM ---------- Originally posted by monochrome Uhmm - you are just wrong. Full Stop. Exactly, I mean it's not like Pentax have missed a promised deadline before .... is it?

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02-13-2015, 10:40 AM - 2 Likes	#162
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,848	We are a miserable pessimistic bunch. Ricoh Pentax are a very different outfit from Pentax Pentax or Hoya Pentax for that matter. The FF camera is in hand, and will be delivered before the end of the year as they have stated. We have updated roadmaps for lenses, and they are working through them step by step, the range is constantly being refined and I for one am very happy with how Ricoh is handling the Pentax brand from a product delivery standpoint. More work is needed for marketing but that also will come in time. Build the product range, get it to state where they can confidently go toe to toe with the competition first and then market / target the segments they have or are building the range to. Patience people, Rome was not built in a day remember.

02-13-2015, 10:41 AM	#163
windhorse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 101	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan No, you would just see more shake-induced blur at the pixel level, not at normal print sizes. That said, i don't have any trouble hand holding the D810, even with unstabilised lenses. so maybe it is me that needs in-body IS rather than the camera

02-13-2015, 10:45 AM	#164
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by windhorse so maybe it is me that needs in-body IS rather than the camera Good one! I should really have said that I don't get any more blur with the D810 than any of my other cameras. I have to remember to keep the shutter speed commensurate with the lens in use, though,

02-13-2015, 10:46 AM	#165
windhorse Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 101	Originally posted by robbiec More work is needed for marketing but that also will come in time. Build the product range, get it to state where they can confidently go toe to toe with the competition first and then market / target the segments they have or are building the range to. since when has product development preceded marketing i thought it is the other way around ie figure out what you can sell then develop a product to match the specs