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06-11-2015, 06:21 AM   #796
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Then the 16MP D4 and Df must be really pointless. The 18MP 1Dx must be pointless. The 21MP 5DIII must be a failure.
well, those are ages a go ^^ I also think Pentax will make the FF at least 36MP, buyers are more impressed with the MP number after all the 42mp new sensor might be "the one" ^^

06-11-2015, 06:21 AM   #797
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I agree with Pal Jensen, keeping in mind the context of a general purpose, decently priced camera.
If it was a generalization I would agree with you; but it isn't. The 16MP D4 and the 18MP 1Dx are built for professional usage in fields where speed trumps image quality in importance; higher resolutions would be detrimental. The Df is a marketing exercise. The 5DIII is 3 years old.

---------- Post added 11-06-15 at 04:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Erictator Quote
Silence can be another form of affirmation.
I think Kenneth is trying to tell us - by keeping quiet - that the FF will have an incredibly silent shutter release
06-11-2015, 06:51 AM   #798
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree with Pal Jensen, keeping in mind the context of a general purpose, decently priced camera.
If it was a generalization I would agree with you; but it isn't. The 16MP D4 and the 18MP 1Dx are built for professional usage in fields where speed trumps image quality in importance; higher resolutions would be detrimental. The Df is a marketing exercise. The 5DIII is 3 years old.

---------- Post added 11-06-15 at 04:23 PM ----------


I think Kenneth is trying to tell us - by keeping quiet - that the FF will have an incredibly silent shutter release

If Ricoh can only handle the release of 1 FF product this year, then to me it makes perfect sense to release one with a dense enough sensor to satisfy current APSC users with similar MP for telephoto crop usage as is currently available in crop sensors. Kill 2 birds with one stone. The whole BSI with 5 axis etc. is right up their ally too... and would also play to the super-res compilations. I only wonder what kind of burst rate it will have, and what kind of CPU it will take to merge those huge raw files in camera for super res mode ala K3II. It will be fun to find out!


Eric
06-11-2015, 06:52 AM   #799
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree with Pal Jensen, keeping in mind the context of a general purpose, decently priced camera.
If it was a generalization I would agree with you; but it isn't. The 16MP D4 and the 18MP 1Dx are built for professional usage in fields where speed trumps image quality in importance; higher resolutions would be detrimental. The Df is a marketing exercise. The 5DIII is 3 years old.
The Canon 5DII and III have stayed at under 25MP because the user base. High volume shooters don't want 70MB RAW files to deal with. The D750 was Nikon's answer to this as users complained about the massive file size of the D810. Wedding and event photographers who average 1,000+ images that they have to cull through don't want or need these massive files.

I have the A7II and I have no need to upgrade to the A7rII unless the AF is vastly improved. The megapixels are not that important to me. I would be just as happy with the 12MP sensor from the A7s if it had excellent AF, color, & DR.

Its not an issue of "speed trumps image quality". Does the K-5IIs have poor image quality? The image quality of the Nikon 16MP sensor is excellent. A friend has the Df with the 58mm F/1.4G and the image quality is phenomenal. If Nikon had not screwed up the Df and built it on the D610 platform with crappy ergonomics, I probably would have bought that instead of the A7II.

The 42MP sensor is going to have better high ISO and its color will hold up better at higher ISO because of the nature of BSI sensors. For people who use the lower ISO range though, there won't be any difference in IQ unless you print 24x36 posters or crop 50% of the image.

There are a million old K-mount lenses out there which can't take advantage of a 42MP sensor and people who enjoy using those lenses have not reason to buy a 42MP body. A well priced 24MP FF LX styled body & K-3 AF with an un-crippled K-mount would sell very well. A second modern body with a 42MP sensor and new AF system would appeal to the power users, but that would cost $2,500 - $3,000.

---------- Post added 06-11-15 at 09:06 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by redcat Quote
well, those are ages a go ^^ I also think Pentax will make the FF at least 36MP, buyers are more impressed with the MP number after all the 42mp new sensor might be "the one" ^^
I would be willing to bet the new Ricoh FF has the same 42MP sensor, and that sensor is really cool technology and will get a lot of press. The most important feature of the new A7rII in my opinion is the AF. The sensor that Ricoh uses won't be as important as the AF performance.

06-11-2015, 07:38 AM   #800
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42.4 MP is 18.8 MP in crop mode...Very good.
06-11-2015, 07:55 AM   #801
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
42.4 MP is 18.8 MP in crop mode...Very good.


And... since many APSC lenses almost cover FF anyway... my "hope" would be that there are other crop modes than just 1.5 crop, maybe a 1.2 and 4:5, which would easily equal any current APSC in pixel count, plus give higher frame rates when needed.


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06-11-2015, 07:55 AM   #802
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@Winder:
Perhaps the D750 was the answer for those who were dissatisfied with the D6x0 series being too entry-level

It is a matter of speed trumping image quality; first, you're again ignoring the context - I was specifically talking about the high speed monsters from Canikon. Not about the relatively affordable APS-C K-5IIs (which - as much as I like that sensor - is seen as a bit dated, with "only" 16MP). And second, those camera being optimized for speed (e.g. by choosing lower resolutions ensors) doesn't mean they have poor image quality (a claim I never made).

To put a 12MP FF sensor in the FF won't work - you and a few others might like it, but it's too niche. Half the resolution of APS-C; worse in good light, better only when you raise ISO.

Last but not least, their strategy is not built around second hand lenses which can't cope with high resolution sensors.
06-11-2015, 08:41 AM   #803
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Most likely they'll have a 24/28MP FF with a fast FPS rate for those who need it, and then come out with the 36MP FF with the lower FPS for those who need it.
Great chance both will have Pixel shift in them.

06-11-2015, 08:55 AM   #804
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There will be only one. Maybe they will introduce reduced resolution raw (like canon has) to appease people who do not want that many mp all the time.
06-11-2015, 09:06 AM   #805
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Regarding the 2 ff cameras, I'm agree with the concept of making a $3.5k for flagship and a $2k for the increasing prosumer market (maybe ff is the new mainstream format).

But....remember the MF market before 645z?? Those $25k mamiyas and hassys...it was really really ground breaking. Its like they make a sensor shift, backlight, 38mpx, 4k video, ninja AF, Pentax K2 for $1800, compared to the medium format market difference. Won't happen. But....

What about a groundbreaking Pentax k2, stealing sales from D810 and 5DIII, at $2500????

If those are the Ricoh plans, they gonna make history.
06-11-2015, 09:20 AM   #806
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In order to "steel sales", Pentax 'd better quickly issue the numbers of lacking lenses models to compete with Canikon.
06-11-2015, 09:22 AM   #807
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
So long as Ricoh is willing to pay for it Sony will sell it to them. We're just accustomed to Ricoh (by previous owners) not being willing to pay up for the newest sensors.
maybe the question now is..... is Pentax user willing to pay for it ?

Sony is kind enough to set the price of A7RII at $3200, probably because they want to protect the sale of A7R.

if we follow the 'trend' in recent Pentax camera, the 'pass down' of sensor is always Sony - Nikon - Pentax, with roughly half year in between them. Unless Ricoh change this 'trend', there is no way to believe this sensor will be in the Pentax FF.

anyway, I like what Sony did here, shaking up the tech and market (not so much as the price is high).
06-11-2015, 09:26 AM   #808
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I will ask again: what trend?
06-11-2015, 09:32 AM   #809
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The 36mp sensor first appeared in the Nikon D800 after that in the A7R. It depends a bit on whether Sony considers this a "special sensor" like the 12mp in the A7s or a mass market one. Then they will sell it to Ricoh. More production means lower costs and larger margins for their own camera's. Also that will probably mean 28 or 30mp aps-c sensors of this type.
06-11-2015, 09:48 AM   #810
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Indeed, it would be a mistake to believe Ricoh is not able to do with Sony A7Rii sensor what he did with Fujitsu Milebeaut processor for K-3
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