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06-12-2015, 08:52 AM   #826
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It makes no sense whatsoever to assume that Sony poses any restrictions on sensor supply to camera vendors.
Unless its Pentax. Everyone and their Mother can buy those full-frame sensors and make camera's except Pentax. They first have to study the development of the market (Japanese grin).

06-12-2015, 09:14 AM   #827
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Like in Intel selling processors using Intel patents? Or do you mean that contract work isn't of course sold to others? Don't get it ...
I think he means custom jobs like x-trans colour filter array on a regular cmos (be it sony or toshiba) or the D810 with a somehow bigger photon well than the D800. Fuji and Nikon may own the patent but do not produce the sensor themselves.
06-12-2015, 09:22 AM   #828
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Here the Sony plan for 2015-2017
1) DEvice is a growth driver (Sensor): In Devices, Sony aims to further bolster its competitive edge in the area of CMOS image sensors by investing to increase production capacity and enhance R&D
2) Imaging products:the Company will target certain areas within each market that are unlikely to experience commoditization by continuing to offer new, high value-added products such as its advanced mirrorless single-lens reflex cameras and high-resolution audio products.

Sony Global - News Releases - Sony Mid-Term Corporate Strategy for FY2015 - FY2017
06-12-2015, 10:23 AM   #829
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Could you please provide the corresponding link? I thank you in advance.
There are many, incl. DPR which I found

-> Sony branches off audio and video business but remains committed to sensor development: Digital Photography Review or
-> Sony to Spin Off More Divisions in Massive Restructuring Drive | NDTV Gadgets

Imaging (cameras) sits in the middle between "audio and video departments" (already spinned off) and "Image sensors, games, music and movies are the engines of growth". Together with other consumer electronics business (TVs, smartphones) which are considered weak.

Imaging is still going strong enough for Sony, but one can clearly read between the lines which is why I said "shortlisted".

Image cameras is certainly not considered by Sony to be in one league with image sensors.

06-12-2015, 10:54 AM   #830
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There are many, incl. DPR which I found

-> Sony branches off audio and video business but remains committed to sensor development: Digital Photography Review or
-> Sony to Spin Off More Divisions in Massive Restructuring Drive | NDTV Gadgets

Imaging (cameras) sits in the middle between "audio and video departments" (already spinned off) and "Image sensors, games, music and movies are the engines of growth". Together with other consumer electronics business (TVs, smartphones) which are considered weak.

Imaging is still going strong enough for Sony, but one can clearly read between the lines which is why I said "shortlisted".

Image cameras is certainly not considered by Sony to be in one league with image sensors.
from the DPR article:
"Sony users can rest easy, though, as the company categorizes its imaging division as a 'stable profit generator......"

Imaging divisions are characteristically loss makers for companies such as Sony, Olympus and also Ricoh. Still, the Japanese have a deeply rooted obsession with cameras (meant in a positive way). I don't see Sony selling off its imaging division any time soon, and they actually don't have the slightest reason now that they are going places with their A7 FF line of cameras, that has again picked up steam with the beastly A7rII.

Chris
06-12-2015, 11:55 AM   #831
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Btw, that makes a difference with Fuji, whose CEO said on radio two month ago that the imaging business was no more a priority for Fuji, which top priority is now health care and cosmetics production...
06-12-2015, 12:00 PM   #832
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Btw, that makes a difference with Fuji, whose CEO said on radio two month ago that the imaging business was no more a priority for Fuji, which top priority is now health care and cosmetics production...
Well I wonder how that will be for Ricoh when we see the next numbers of sales and profit. I guess that the total camera business is slowly going in red figures.
06-12-2015, 12:08 PM   #833
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I hope Ricoh did never have high ambitions with Pentax brand development, at least i think they never aknowledged it was a significant/strategic component for them.
Which doesn't imply they would back recurrent losses, indeed. :/

06-12-2015, 12:50 PM   #834
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Ricaoh strategy is I beleive similar to Sony, forget the low end , move to the niche market as they have done great with 645Z. Will try to replicate this with FF and continue to be the best APSC in the market. And will offer some lower end model with speacial fiunction to attract new user. I am fine if that what they do.
Anyway , the rest of the crowd only see Nikon and Canon
06-12-2015, 01:05 PM   #835
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Two points a bit off topic: 1. This thread is WHY I for one can't get on without pentaxforums.com, and 2. Can't wait for the K-3 to fall into my price range. Thanks you folks!
06-12-2015, 04:17 PM - 1 Like   #836
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well I wonder how that will be for Ricoh when we see the next numbers of sales and profit. I guess that the total camera business is slowly going in red figures.
We have to remember that Ricoh, in the scheme of things, paid peanuts (about US $120m) for the Pentax camera business and brand when they bought it from Hoya. That included hundreds of experienced engineers/technicians/managers, several factories, a large patent portfolio, trademarks, a distribution network, a live product line probably selling moderately well, and a globally recognised brand. They got a bargain, especially in this day and age when you see dot-coms with 20 employees and no revenue being bought and sold for billions.

I think a big company like Ricoh with US$ 23 billion in sales isn't going to be worried about minor ups and downs in Pentax sales, as long as they see a useful future for the brand within their business portfolio.
06-12-2015, 04:47 PM   #837
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Sony's no longer prioritizing cameras. Sensors, especially ones for phones, power that imaging division and they're vulnerable if Apple stop using their 8Mp chip. Samsung already have.

Cameras may be spun off the way of TVs and computers.
06-12-2015, 04:56 PM   #838
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Sony's no longer prioritizing cameras. Sensors, especially ones for phones, power that imaging division and they're vulnerable if Apple stop using their 8Mp chip. Samsung already have.

Cameras may be spun off the way of TVs and computers.
Sony publishes the digital camera goal for 2018: Goes for ultimate speed, sensivity and resolution! | sonyalpharumors
06-12-2015, 06:40 PM   #839
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
We have to remember that Ricoh, in the scheme of things, paid peanuts (about US $120m) for the Pentax camera business and brand when they bought it from Hoya. That included hundreds of experienced engineers/technicians/managers, several factories, a large patent portfolio, trademarks, a distribution network, a live product line probably selling moderately well, and a globally recognised brand. They got a bargain, especially in this day and age when you see dot-coms with 20 employees and no revenue being bought and sold for billions.

I think a big company like Ricoh with US$ 23 billion in sales isn't going to be worried about minor ups and downs in Pentax sales, as long as they see a useful future for the brand within their business portfolio.
A "useful future" for a mature business often means providing a positive and significant cash flow. How much or little Ricoh paid for the business doesn't really impact that.
06-12-2015, 06:56 PM   #840
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I don’t think you can say that Ricoh paid peanuts for Pentax, even if the rumoured sale price of $120m looks quite low. The main cost was the hundreds of employees, which they took on while they were in the process of reducing their own workforce by 10,000. Bear in mind that Japanese labour law makes it basically impossible to forcibly lay off full time employees. The obligation to employees is what Hoya wanted to get rid of, and it’s what Ricoh was willing to take on to acquire Pentax. Pentax was not a bargain to Ricoh in the same way as your discounted camera was to you.

Actually Ricoh Imaging sales have fallen in the last year or so, but I think there’s a fairly simple explanation for this. In 2012 and 2013 Ricoh ran some fairly big TV ad campaigns for the Q10, K-30, Q7 and K-50. They didn’t do this in 2014 (or 2015 so far), and I guess they lost some sales as a result. I’d like to think that they have been allocating that money to product development instead, like you-know-what. I think the time I would start to worry about Ricoh’s commitment is a few years down the line, if they have released their new full frame line up and are still not making money on cameras. They would indicate the whole strategy had failed.

Fujifilm is interesting, because despite the hype around their cameras, all indications I see suggest that they don’t sell that many of them. I mainly look at the Japanese sales rankings, and there are usually several Pentax models above Fujifilm. I also don’t see many people using them. At least in Japan, X-series cameras are more niche than K-mount. I do suspect that have a good rate of lens sales per camera sold, though. The lenses seem to be the main reason to buy into Fuji. But just because it isn’t a big earner for Fuji doesn’t mean they are likely to sell it off. Cameras are Fuji’s heritage, so I think they would want to keep that business for reasons of their company image. Actually, it is surprising how sentimental even big Japanese companies can be about their heritage.

That rationale doesn’t work for Sony. They are not particularly identified as a camera company in the same way as some of their competitors, and I don’t think they have any more sentimental attachment to cameras than they would to TVs or computers - businesses that they are publicly trying to get out of. Notice the number of “Look how great we’re doing!” presentations and press releases they’ve been doing recently. You can see that as good news, or you can see that as trying to increase the perceived value of the business unit for a sale.

Someone will probably say I’m pretending to be an analyst. Well, I’m not an analyst, but I do know much more about Japanese business culture than I do about photography if I’m honest about it.
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