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06-12-2015, 07:01 PM - 1 Like   #841
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
means providing a positive and significant cash flow
Not every business is bought just to be an immediate cash-cow.

I'm sure Ricoh knew up front that Pentax wouldn't immediately generate piles of cash for them, but figured that Pentax had other stuff (technology, patents etc) that could be useful. And maybe they just thought: we better buy this struggling company with some solid assets before a competitor does.

06-12-2015, 09:42 PM - 1 Like   #842
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What about the statements (paraphrased) - there is room for a third, full-line camera company; our strategy is to be number three over the intermediate term, which is 5 - 7 years and number 1 in twenty; our business philosophy is one of constant, manageable growth and incremental improvement over years and decades, not quarters; our hallmarks are quality and dependability - what about those statements do we not understand?

Or do we just forget?

Ricoh does not measure success the same way so many commenters here measure success, so we impute imminent failure (or postulate future failure) when in fact Ricoh Imaging is generally successful from the perspective of progress toward corporate goals.
06-13-2015, 01:18 AM   #843
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
What about the statements (paraphrased) - there is room for a third, full-line camera company; our strategy is to be number three over the intermediate term, which is 5 - 7 years and number 1 in twenty; our business philosophy is one of constant, manageable growth and incremental improvement over years and decades, not quarters; our hallmarks are quality and dependability - what about those statements do we not understand?

Or do we just forget?

Ricoh does not measure success the same way so many commenters here measure success, so we impute imminent failure (or postulate future failure) when in fact Ricoh Imaging is generally successful from the perspective of progress toward corporate goals.
I think competition with Sony for 3rd place is not won yet because they have some great lenses (Zeiss in fact) for their cameras and produce good mirrorless... But Sony products are amazingly expensive while Pentax remains a great value for the money... You can buy the K3-II plus a good lens for the price of the new RX100IV...
For me Pentax has everything (except FF) most photographers need but is not good at marketing their products... Maybe it will change !
06-13-2015, 01:28 AM   #844
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Not every business is bought just to be an immediate cash-cow.
For sure. Look at how one can successfully grow money on the stock market. Not by buying just one stock and then hope it grows enough in a month to sell at a profit, but by diversifying with a portfolio of many stocks, and sitting on it for the long term (again, hoping for growth of course).

Generally, the latter is the better strategy, right?

QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I'm sure Ricoh knew up front that Pentax wouldn't immediately generate piles of cash for them, but figured that Pentax had other stuff (technology, patents etc) that could be useful.
Oh yes!

Pentax is much more than just consumer level digital cameras.

Ask your physician the next time you get that "procedure" that involves ten feet of flexible tubing with nippers, scrapers, and of course, a tiny camera.
QuoteQuote:
Superior image quality. Improved patient care. Ergonomic design. Superior function. Performance and price efficiency. PENTAX Medical (Global)
When you see the workers alongside the road with vests, boots, and tripods with what looks like a little telescope on it, ask them if it is a Pentax (I know, it isn't really Pentax anymore, since it was sold off to some outfit in Taiwan).
QuoteQuote:
Smart and accurate. Increased productivity. Efficient accuracy at your fingers. Dust and water resistance (hmmmm . . . . . . . now where did I see that before???? Sounds like a great feature.). Ideal for outdoor. Large graphic display. Pentax surveying instruments and solutions
Pentax also has a wide variety of sport optics. Binoculars. Spotting scopes. Rifle scopes. Telescope eyepieces. Digital Binoculars - Sport Optics by PENTAX


So Pentax is really a whole lot more to Ricoh than what many here see. I am confident that Ricoh will take good care of our beloved Pentax cameras, and lenses. There will be some really great cameras with features to rival the other top brands too.

06-13-2015, 01:30 AM - 1 Like   #845
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It is also worth noting that there are 229 companies under the Ricoh umbrella (not counting partnerships, distribution deals etc). What goes on in their small PENTAX RICOH IMAGING COMPANY, LTD unit is probably lost in the Ricoh corporate paperwork most times.
06-13-2015, 01:46 AM - 1 Like   #846
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Interesting how this discussion evolves into asking who may drop its camera business in the future.

Initially, it was just about the point that Sony cares about selling image sensors more than about selling cameras. A point which has now been made, I think.

To further illustrate, here is Sony's website, released April 7 this year, detailing all stock sensors everybody can buy in a heartbeat
-> Sony Global - Products
It even already includes a stacked sensor (RS type) although not yet 1" or FF BSI (probably in order not to spoil their Wednesday launch).

I wished Sony would attach a pricelist to that revealing presentation

EDIT
I found this sensor to be pretty amazing, from the industry sensor section:
-> Sony Global - IMX250LLR/LQR, IMX252LLR/LQR
can read out 5MP at 160fps in global shutter mode (1/1.5" chip), faster for regions. That's almost like 36MP at 24fps, the holy grail of still/video fusion

Last edited by falconeye; 06-13-2015 at 02:15 AM.
06-13-2015, 01:57 AM - 1 Like   #847
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Ask your physician the next time you get that "procedure" that involves ten feet of flexible tubing with nippers, scrapers, and of course, a tiny camera.
That part stayed with Hoya - good riddance (of the endless jokes on the subject).

For the non-consumer part of "our" Pentax, I'd mention Factory Automation. Apparently is a big thing for Ricoh.
06-13-2015, 02:17 AM   #848
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
I think competition with Sony for 3rd place is not won yet because they have some great lenses (Zeiss in fact) for their cameras and produce good mirrorless... But Sony products are amazingly expensive while Pentax remains a great value for the money... You can buy the K3-II plus a good lens for the price of the new RX100IV...
For me Pentax has everything (except FF) most photographers need but is not good at marketing their products... Maybe it will change !
Sony amazingly expensive? What, did I fall through a wormhole into an alternate dimension? They're the ones with the sub 1000$ FF ilc remember?

06-13-2015, 02:31 AM   #849
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Interesting how this discussion evolves into asking who may drop its camera business in the future.

Initially, it was just about the point that Sony cares about selling image sensors more than about selling cameras. A point which has now been made, I think.

To further illustrate, here is Sony's website, released April 7 this year, detailing all stock sensors everybody can buy in a heartbeat
-> Sony Global - Products
It even already includes a stacked sensor (RS type) although not yet 1" or FF BSI (probably in order not to spoil their Wednesday launch).

I wished Sony would attach a pricelist to that revealing presentation
Is it very difficult to built a FF sensor without SR into a K-01? Since then you you just make your own ff.
06-13-2015, 03:51 AM   #850
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You'll have to rebuild everything around so it's not far from developing a complete camera in a limited space.
06-13-2015, 03:54 AM   #851
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Is it very difficult to built a FF sensor without SR into a K-01? Since then you you just make your own ff.
What do you hope to be accomplished this way?
The problem is not making a FF, any kind of FF; the problem is in making a FF system which will sell. Thus, shortcuts are useless if they don't lead to this goal.
06-13-2015, 04:32 AM   #852
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Not every business is bought just to be an immediate cash-cow.

I'm sure Ricoh knew up front that Pentax wouldn't immediately generate piles of cash for them, but figured that Pentax had other stuff (technology, patents etc) that could be useful. And maybe they just thought: we better buy this struggling company with some solid assets before a competitor does.
You're adding to my comment as I never said "immediate". For those who are inclined to think that positive cash flow is not highly important in a mature business, I have a hard time coming up with counter-examples.
06-13-2015, 05:06 AM   #853
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No doubt positive cash-flow helps make M&A decisions a lot easier at any stage.

However I've seen many expensive corporate acquisitions done that have little to do with the solid cash-flow of the target. 'Synergies', 'efficiencies', 'enter new markets', 'growth' are some phrases that spring to mind.
06-13-2015, 05:08 AM   #854
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony amazingly expensive? What, did I fall through a wormhole into an alternate dimension? They're the ones with the sub 1000$ FF ilc remember?
Well that's true, but they are turning very expensive IMHO.The launch prices I read for their latest products are : 1150 euros for RX100IV, 1600 euros for RX10II and A7RII at 3500 euros. For a compact camera, I believe that 1150 euros is very expensive. So is 1600 euros for a bridge (it is the price tag of the Canon 6D body only)...
Anyway there is a market for these products..
06-13-2015, 07:01 AM   #855
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
No doubt positive cash-flow helps make M&A decisions a lot easier at any stage.

However I've seen many expensive corporate acquisitions done that have little to do with the solid cash-flow of the target. 'Synergies', 'efficiencies', 'enter new markets', 'growth' are some phrases that spring to mind.
I agree with all of those points and no doubt Ricoh was expecting strong synergies, etc. when they made this deal a few years ago. But now that we're three years past that, they might be finding the world looks differently to them than it did at the time. Wasn't 2012 a year of great growth in the digital camera market? I know in my experience with large corporations, the businesses in mature markets are expected to provide cash to be invested in higher-growth segments. I've seen nothing that suggests Japanese companies are fundamentally different in this regard than Western companies. Sorry, I think this has diverged from the FF.
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