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06-13-2015, 07:29 AM   #856
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QuoteOriginally posted by gorme Quote
Well that's true, but they are turning very expensive IMHO.The launch prices I read for their latest products are : 1150 euros for RX100IV, 1600 euros for RX10II and A7RII at 3500 euros. For a compact camera, I believe that 1150 euros is very expensive. So is 1600 euros for a bridge (it is the price tag of the Canon 6D body only)...
Anyway there is a market for these products..
Or there is no business case for cheap camera's any more. ......

06-16-2015, 05:01 PM   #857
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Interesting interview with Sony by Imaging Resource about the 42mp sensor that might be in the FF: Sony Q&A: The must-have sensor tech of the future?

apparently it is like the new 1" stacked sensor. With circuitry behind the sensor, made of copper instead of aluminium. Making it much faster and less noisy. It also has sdram memory and a d/a convertor on the back for super fast read out.
06-16-2015, 06:44 PM   #858
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Interesting interview with Sony by Imaging Resource about the 42mp sensor that might be in the FF: Sony Q&A: The must-have sensor tech of the future?

apparently it is like the new 1" stacked sensor. With circuitry behind the sensor, made of copper instead of aluminium. Making it much faster and less noisy. It also has sdram memory and a d/a convertor on the back for super fast read out.
The interview wasn't very clear about that. But the FF sensor is clearly marked Exmor R, not Exmore RS. It is BSI bit isn't a stacked sensor.

BTW, having more ADCs connected by longer copper vias into another chip layer can actually increase read noise. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the RX100m2/3 sensor trumps the RX100m4 sensor in DxOmark score (because of dynamic range).
06-16-2015, 10:13 PM   #859
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For sure there doesn't seem to be any still photo IQ issue with this Stacked BSI : i would think it's rather manufacturing costscuttings + 4K processing speed that decided Sony to adopt it.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 06-16-2015 at 10:42 PM.
06-17-2015, 03:16 AM   #860
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I think the Pentax FF having this sensor is quite realistic ... if Sony keeps the role of giving the sensor to other producers 6 months later Pentax can announce the FF by december and deliver in January
06-17-2015, 04:16 AM - 2 Likes   #861
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QuoteOriginally posted by infoomatic Quote
I think the Pentax FF having this sensor is quite realistic
Sure?

The rason why Sony made this sensor was stated clearly in the interview:

A sensor resolution 4x of 4k (which automatically yields 8000*5333 or 42.6MP) and BSI to compensate for possible loss of light. Plus phase shift sensels embedded.

This makes sense for a camera with a focus on 4k and LV AF.

The drawback is a very high cost of manufacturing, as seen at the A7rII pricing.

In summary: IMHO makes no sense as the Pentax FF sensor which has almost opposite sensor selection criteria.
06-17-2015, 04:21 AM   #862
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
IMHO makes no sense as the Pentax FF sensor which has almost opposite sensor selection criteria.
I agree.

Pentax and 4K do not rhyme at all, at least not given their past efforts concerning video.

BTW, am I wrong being sceptical about on-sensor PDAF for still photography?
Even if sensels are not half-masked but both halves are used to aim at separate rays then still surely the regular light collection ability of the sensels should be compromised to some extent if they are used for PDAF purposes.

Also, while CDAF may become as fast as PDAF, I'd rather not have the the sensor active all the time, so that it does not heat up more than necessary.

Are these unnecessary concerns?
06-17-2015, 04:29 AM   #863
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Sure?

The rason why Sony made this sensor was stated clearly in the interview:

A sensor resolution 4x of 4k (which automatically yields 8000*5333 or 42.6MP) and BSI to compensate for possible loss of light. Plus phase shift sensels embedded.

This makes sense for a camera with a focus on 4k and LV AF.

The drawback is a very high cost of manufacturing, as seen at the A7rII pricing.

In summary: IMHO makes no sense as the Pentax FF sensor which has almost opposite sensor selection criteria.
you never know. Kenspo is keeping quiet... when Sony would sell this sensor to Nikon and Pentax they could make larger numbers to set economy of scales factor at work. While 4k may not be of interest to Pentax, I think fast and accurate AF in live view will be. Maybe Ricoh will surprise us with a hybrid VF. (you can always hope )

06-17-2015, 05:02 AM   #864
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Kenspo is keeping quiet...
Kenspo is a sponsored photographer. He shouldn't have any details earlier than first prototypes ship to testers. And they would ship to trusted Japanese testers first ...

QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
(you can always hope )
The term is "dream", my friend, Dream, not hope.
06-17-2015, 05:21 AM   #865
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I agree.

Pentax and 4K do not rhyme at all, at least not given their past efforts concerning video.

BTW, am I wrong being sceptical about on-sensor PDAF for still photography?
Even if sensels are not half-masked but both halves are used to aim at separate rays then still surely the regular light collection ability of the sensels should be compromised to some extent if they are used for PDAF purposes.

Also, while CDAF may become as fast as PDAF, I'd rather not have the the sensor active all the time, so that it does not heat up more than necessary.

Are these unnecessary concerns?
I think Sony, Samsung, Olympus, Fujifilm, and Panasonic are demonstrating they are unnecessary concerns. That said, I don't think anyone expects MILCs will match DSLRs in total shots per battery charge.
06-17-2015, 10:22 AM   #866
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
In summary: IMHO makes no sense as the Pentax FF sensor which has almost opposite sensor selection criteria.
We'll see ... I guess I am just too excited about the Pentax FF :-) From that perspective it does not make sense. I don't think that Ricoh is that innovative, but my dream would be a DSLR with an overlay display in the viewfinder so that one could choose between using OVF and EVF (Ricoh has some patents...). With an EVF and thus autofocus using the sensor I think the sensor of the A7R-II is the state of the art for the next 12-18 months. The Pentax with this sensor inside must be a low light monster. I also think that Nikon will have this sensor in their next cams, or at least a quite similar version.
06-17-2015, 02:41 PM   #867
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I agree that a hybrid EVF/OVF viewfinder in a DSLR would be a nice and anticipated innovation. And relatively easy to do if you accept a somewhat larger prism bump. Because the prism is an ideal means to overlay two images.

However ...

it is obvious that Pentax will have to focus on going full frame now. That's a goal Pentax cannot afford to oveload with new ideas.

Further innovations may come afterwards, for APSC or full frame.
06-17-2015, 09:10 PM   #868
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
it is obvious that Pentax will have to focus on going full frame now. That's a goal Pentax cannot afford to oveload with new ideas.
That is a good point, just getting it (and the associated lenses) out the door is more than enough work. Adding too many new bells and whistles just increases the possibility of something not working. Despite all the internet speculation I suspect the Pentax FF will be more conventional than many hope (dream?) about.
06-17-2015, 09:45 PM   #869
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I suspect the Pentax FF will be more conventional
Don't we expect a Full-frame mirrorless K-02 with Hybrid EVF, LEDs on the hump for face detect and on-sensor 81-point AF?

That and a plain vanilla camera that works better at 42mp than any others for at least 15 days would be good.
06-18-2015, 12:28 AM   #870
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Kenspo is a sponsored photographer. He shouldn't have any details earlier than first prototypes ship to testers. And they would ship to trusted Japanese testers first ..
Hasn't Kenspo stated that he's a "brand ambassador?" Unless you have the same designation as Kenspo, I'm not sure you how could know what information is or is not shared with him.
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