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02-24-2015, 05:25 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Big kudos to Richard Butler who mentioned the upcoming Pentax FF model at the "Gear Day" feature at CreativeLive!

During this 1h feature, no Pentax/Ricoh was ever in sight (the table was filled with Canon, Nikon, Sony, Samsung, Fujifilm, and Olympus models), but at the very end -- when reviewers were asked which upcoming model they are most excited about -- Richard Butler gave a big nod to the Pentax FF model. He mentioned Pentax as a manufacturer of "photographer's cameras" with "well-positioned controls".

DPReview receives a lot of flak from us, so this may be an opportunity to say "thanks" and drive up the popularity rating of their "CP+ 2015: Up close and personal with Ricoh's full-frame Pentax mockup" article by visiting it and leaving a positive comment.
Personally, I don't think DPR deserves anything from Pentaxians (certainly not our internet traffic).
Grudging credits for Pentax cameras in their reviews, and often not even bothering to explore some of the features of the cameras that make them unique.
The latest round of trolling Pentax users on their site is a new low.
To me, I think they have lost credibility to Pentax users and relevance (esp with Pentax Forums here and the New official Ricoh/Pentax forum )
I'd be happy to see an eventual migration of Pentax users out of their forums.


My thanks to you though for always keeping the flag flying there and keeping DPR honest with your well laid out arguments whenever they have poor information on their Pentax camera reviews.


Last edited by pinholecam; 02-24-2015 at 07:14 AM.
02-24-2015, 05:33 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
This FF announcement was the first step ever made by Pentax brand, aimed directly at its own userbase, to consolidate it. To gather those people, and not scatter them away. First crop cameras were departure from the film userbase, Hoya did nothing to gather userbase again, Ricoh did not do enough in time to keep the remaining userbase from scattering again. Pentax, then Hoya, then Ricoh, sent signals full of confusion and reject of user's wishes. They have been paid for it, severely.

This is the first ever try to do the right thing, now when the market share of the brand is the smallest ever.
This is far too simplifying. I vividly remember discussions only recently, where the advantages of FF over Apsc were simply outright denied, or at least heavily disputed, by the majority of posters. The Pentax user base overall has been (very) far from welcoming regarding the prospect of a FF dslr body launch. The most read statement as I remember it, was that Ricoh/Pentax would be stupid to launch a FF body, wasting resources on an obscure market destined to lose them money. The fact that Ricoh decided to follow their own path regardless earns them huge credit in my eyes.

Chris
02-24-2015, 06:25 AM   #78
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DPR feels to me as a bunch of old people that are very afraid of anything off-beat or new. If you shoot either Pentax or Sony then they don't take you serious at all. I just know most of them are rolling their eyes behind their computer screens. I shoot both Pentax and Sony, so I refrain from visiting that site, my presence may cause very serious eye injury. I'm afraid their eyes may roll all the way round.
02-24-2015, 06:34 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
I vividly remember discussions only recently, where the advantages of FF over Apsc were simply outright denied, or at least heavily disputed, by the majority of posters. The Pentax user base overall has been (very) far from welcoming regarding the prospect of a FF dslr body launch. The most read statement as I remember it, was that Ricoh/Pentax would be stupid to launch a FF body, wasting resources on an obscure market destined to lose them money.
I've got to admit a certain amount of ambivalence (though not outright hostility) to FF on my own part. It didn't strike me as something that Pentax urgently needs, given 645 above and Q below already. It also further complicates the lens catalog, which is already a duke's mixture.

On the other hand... We've still got legacy film lenses in the catalog, and we've got third parties cranking out lenses designed for FF, and now we're going to have a means to take advantage of that. For those wanting a step up in performance, it's easier than jumping to 645. So, I guess I won't complain.

02-24-2015, 06:41 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
This is far too simplifying. I vividly remember discussions only recently, where the advantages of FF over Apsc were simply outright denied, or at least heavily disputed, by the majority of posters. The Pentax user base overall has been (very) far from welcoming regarding the prospect of a FF dslr body launch. The most read statement as I remember it, was that Ricoh/Pentax would be stupid to launch a FF body, wasting resources on an obscure market destined to lose them money. The fact that Ricoh decided to follow their own path regardless earns them huge credit in my eyes.

Chris
Chicken or the egg? Most of the people that went Pentax in the digital era chose Pentax despite the fact that the brand misses an FF camera in its product lineup. So it's only logical that a great portion of Pentaxians don't see any need for an FF camera.
02-24-2015, 07:46 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Chicken or the egg? Most of the people that went Pentax in the digital era chose Pentax despite the fact that the brand misses an FF camera in its product lineup. So it's only logical that a great portion of Pentaxians don't see any need for an FF camera.
Of course, but even if the Pentax user base in general does not desire a FF camera, that still doesn't explain the overall hostility against the prospect of a FF camera. I don't use MF and will 99% sure never do so, and that goes for the vast majority of Pentax users. Still, the 645 platform was never met with the hostility that the FF platform faced.
Are people really that shortsighted (or short in memory), that they will all make a radical turn now to praise the coming of the FF, but at the same time spite Ricoh/Pentax for not releasing it sooner?

Chris
02-24-2015, 08:36 AM   #82
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Stop Feeding the Troll

QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote
Personally, I don't think DPR deserves anything from Pentaxians (certainly not our internet traffic).
Grudging credits for Pentax cameras in their reviews, and often not even bothering to explore some of the features of the cameras that make them unique.
The latest round of trolling Pentax users on their site is a new low.
To me, I think they have lost credibility to Pentax users and relevance (esp with Pentax Forums here and the New official Ricoh/Pentax forum )
I'd be happy to see an eventual migration of Pentax users out of their forums.
From their perspective there are (again, from their perspective) too few Pentax users to warrant spending time and space performing proper reviews. Such just doesn't result in enough clicks (clicks = revenue) to justify the effort. PF has sucked too many users out of DPR's Pentax SLR Talk Forum.

Troll Baiting (Clickbaiting) Pentax users, OTOH, generates a flood of Clicks.
  • What's the best camera of 2014? K-3, by a large margin!!!
  • "Where's the K-3 Review" is actually trending - it is a 'Thing' there.
  • Pentax FF is 'Announced' - (Remember the MX-D - here's a photo. Gosh, that was, what, 2001?? Don't hold your breath).
It serves DPR to bait us - we always respond with Clicks.

Just. Stop. Clicking.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-24-2015 at 08:42 AM.
02-24-2015, 10:38 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, that's the one.
It is in fact 3% for them, I apologise, which is some 3/7 of the market share lost. The relative shrinking of the DSLR market meant same fate for everybody, but even if their competitors are selling proportionally lower number of cameras (because the market shrank) Pentax under Ricoh's management in the last 2 years sold even less than what a shrank market would require. Their decline in market share was faster than market's trend. That also coincides with rapid FF DSLR development and strengthening of DSLR offer of their competitors, who now completely dominate the market. Pentax has totally lost any relevance in the DSLR market, and will continue unless those inept managers start to think straight.

So no wonder Pentax took a sharp dive. The trend won't slow down quickly. I bet that announcing the plastic FF with no specs at all — almost a year before it can be delivered — means that they were desperate to somewhat slow the descent. And in the meantime they pulled out K-S2, which indeed should have been introduced instead of the K-S1 nonsense in autumn. But they also completely screwed up that too — launched a toy with no real features at a crazy price before they launched a true value mid-range DSLR. And in the meantime, lowered the value of the K-3 to serve as both upper level and a real mid-level offer in heavily discounted kits. Which is .. I have no words for it.

It really hurts to see so much basic marketing incompetence one company can display in such a short time, in times when all actions must be totally coordinated, precise and no time wasted.

The real tragedy is that when the market, slowly but without looking back, it's switching toward mirrorelss, Ricoh throws totally away the experience of the GXR to present a me-too full frame reflex, and new full frame K-lenses. Talk about wasting time!

02-24-2015, 10:55 AM   #84
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Yes! I tried to told them, how they're wasting time by not abandoning us! But would they listen?
02-24-2015, 11:16 AM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
The real tragedy is that when the market, slowly but without looking back, it's switching toward mirrorelss, Ricoh throws totally away the experience of the GXR to present a me-too full frame reflex, and new full frame K-lenses. Talk about wasting time!
So, don't waste your time with Pentax gear, if your "just another mirrorless" guy....
02-24-2015, 11:21 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Of course, but even if the Pentax user base in general does not desire a FF camera, that still doesn't explain the overall hostility against the prospect of a FF camera. I don't use MF and will 99% sure never do so, and that goes for the vast majority of Pentax users. Still, the 645 platform was never met with the hostility that the FF platform faced.
Are people really that shortsighted (or short in memory), that they will all make a radical turn now to praise the coming of the FF, but at the same time spite Ricoh/Pentax for not releasing it sooner?

Chris
I believe the cause for hostility may be in part tied to the fact that apsc fans may see a ff as internal competition reducing features and extending development cycle for future apsc bodies - relegating them to second tier status. Shades of what Nikon did with their D300. The multiple hand-offs of the Pentax brand have been unfortunate, but I am thrilled that it is now with Ricoh and that they have decide to flesh out there offerings with a FF.
Long live Ricoh!
02-24-2015, 11:26 AM   #87
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Fortunately, Canon cares seriously for APS-C.
So no reason Ricoh won't in the future.
02-24-2015, 01:06 PM   #88
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K-S2 looks very interesting as an upgrade from my K-2000. I like the compact size. But I will get the FF when available - - IF - - it allows me to use the full un-cropped lens circle of my DA (APS-C) lenses. I am a wide angle addict, don't care if the edges are soft.
02-24-2015, 01:06 PM   #89
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The fact that Pentax has lost market share over the past few years is definitely bad news. People that claim that it doesn't matter has rose colored glasses. It means less product in stores, less third party support and greater risk if Ricoh dropping the product line altogether.

However, a temporary loss in marketshare is probably not that bad in the long run, if Ricoh has put their ducks in a row and starts releasing great products AND GETS THOSE PRODUCTS IN FRONT OF CONSUMERS.
They have to get serious about regions outside of Japan. I think this Fullframe and updated lens roadmap with very intriguing lenses is a great leap forward into capturing market share.

Of course, it only matters if consumers are aware that these great new products exist, outside of tiny Pentaxforums.com
02-24-2015, 01:43 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
So, don't waste your time with Pentax gear, if your "just another mirrorless" guy....
Pentax is in fact THE mirror company among the camera manufacturers. They made the first japanese reflex camera and didn't make a camera without a mirror until well into the 80's. Why anyone whould expect them to be leading in mirrorless, and why, is beyond me...
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