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04-16-2015, 07:16 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Let's make a deal Adam, you tell me the specs on the new K3ii and I'll tell you the plot of new Star Wars movie (and what happens to Han Solo)
I think that deal would favor you Normally I look at spoilers, but in this case I want to stay as far away as possible.


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04-16-2015, 07:24 PM   #197
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Very interesting. I thought that the full frame would occupy the engineering team, but obviously Ricoh is pulling out the stops. I can't see a minor updates making sense, so it will be interesting.

What would make me buy? Especially when I would have to choose?

Better IQ. The k3 is nice but not luscious. A stop or two better noise performance, more depth in the shadows.

Substantial AF performance improvement.

Anything else would be a bonus, but those two together get me spending my money.

A vigorous aps-c offering won't steal any thunder from the full frame to come if it is to be offered to a completely different market. Although I suspect Ricoh is nowhere near that kind of games. Put out the very best you can, get the sales from whatever sells.

Last edited by derekkite; 04-16-2015 at 07:33 PM.
04-16-2015, 07:43 PM   #198
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I don't know why this would surprise anyone. The K3 is looking long in the teeth next to the competition, and frankly even compared to the KS2. If the improve things like the sensor, AF, and FPS it will be seen as a very nice upgrade by APSC shooter.

Yes FF is coming. But not everyone is interested in, wants, or needs FF. I think FF is a good long term move for Pentax. But a K3 replacement means a lot more to my personal photography.
04-16-2015, 07:47 PM - 2 Likes   #199
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ISO 50 would be really nice.
I would have thought better high ISO noise means a new sensor, which means a new camera (dare I say K-3s - for sports?), not a K-3 Mark II.
Improved processor, improved AF, higher frame rate and WiFi are probably a given.
Flippy screen - maybe. I must confess to liking my K-S2 a lot in that regard.

04-16-2015, 07:49 PM   #200
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Getting a base iso of 50 from an APS-C sensor it's just not feasible at the moment ( i know we got 80 on the k5), we might on the FF though...

Last edited by Stavri; 04-16-2015 at 08:24 PM.
04-16-2015, 08:25 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
a mid-range attractor that may have a short life (K-S1)
I was referring to the K-S2 as the recently released mid-level camera. It seems to me that the K-S1 was an experiment that didn't work as planned. Hence the sped up release of the "conventional" K-S2. Both cameras are targeted at customers who don't already own a Pentax camera, and both were initially priced significantly higher than entry-level Canon DSLRs that will be the "attractor" models in big box stores. Entry level customers won't have a specific model in mind when they go camera shopping, big box stores can't sell on anything other than price comparisons. The target for the K-S2 is (or should be) someone who has decided to buy a DSLR and is looking for a good value proposition. Most likely someone who has previously owned an entry-level DSLR, or at least owned something more sophisticated than a simple P&S (which is what a smartphone camera is), and wants to make photography a hobby. The K-S1 was targeted at people who wanted a fashionable camera to wear, not make a hobby of taking pictures. Even if it had been appealing in a fashion sense (it isn't), that target market isn't looking for a camera that is more serious than a P&S. By using common components, Ricoh can probably justify leaving the K-S1 in their lineup for a while, but it's an evolutionary dead end.

We could ask Canon how having dozens of different models, from different design generations, on the market at the same time worked out; I don't think it's a good strategy for a camera manufacturer with one tenth of Canon's market share to emulate. The Pentax buyer is never going to be the casual buyer, it will be someone who takes some time to research their purchase. To attract those kind of buyers, you need to have products that compare favourably to equivalent models from other manufacturers, but you don't need to have a product for every possible customer. Right now, the careful camera buyer is the most attractive target market out there. Their numbers are relatively stable, they continue to purchase accessories and upgrades for years after the initial purchase, and they will seek out points of distribution to purchase the camera they decide on, so it doesn't matter as much if every point of sale doesn't carry your products.
04-16-2015, 09:34 PM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
I was referring to the K-S2 as the recently released mid-level camera. It seems to me that the K-S1 was an experiment that didn't work as planned. Hence the sped up release of the "conventional" K-S2. Both cameras are targeted at customers who don't already own a Pentax camera, and both were initially priced significantly higher than entry-level Canon DSLRs that will be the "attractor" models in big box stores. Entry level customers won't have a specific model in mind when they go camera shopping, big box stores can't sell on anything other than price comparisons. The target for the K-S2 is (or should be) someone who has decided to buy a DSLR and is looking for a good value proposition. Most likely someone who has previously owned an entry-level DSLR, or at least owned something more sophisticated than a simple P&S (which is what a smartphone camera is), and wants to make photography a hobby. The K-S1 was targeted at people who wanted a fashionable camera to wear, not make a hobby of taking pictures. Even if it had been appealing in a fashion sense (it isn't), that target market isn't looking for a camera that is more serious than a P&S. By using common components, Ricoh can probably justify leaving the K-S1 in their lineup for a while, but it's an evolutionary dead end.

We could ask Canon how having dozens of different models, from different design generations, on the market at the same time worked out; I don't think it's a good strategy for a camera manufacturer with one tenth of Canon's market share to emulate. The Pentax buyer is never going to be the casual buyer, it will be someone who takes some time to research their purchase. To attract those kind of buyers, you need to have products that compare favourably to equivalent models from other manufacturers, but you don't need to have a product for every possible customer. Right now, the careful camera buyer is the most attractive target market out there. Their numbers are relatively stable, they continue to purchase accessories and upgrades for years after the initial purchase, and they will seek out points of distribution to purchase the camera they decide on, so it doesn't matter as much if every point of sale doesn't carry your products.
I hope Pentax has a strategy, but it's not clear at all to me right now. Each of the K-50, K-S1, and K-S2 has certain advantages, so I'm not certain which they'll continue, but it seems to me that they need to drop at least one of them fairly soon. At the stores I've visited, the Rebel T3i seems to be Canon's "attractor", but I'm not sure how they'll juggle their lineup once the T6i is readily available; the K-50 is best positioned, both in price and in quality, to compete with the T3i, but I'm not certain what Ricoh-Pentax is thinking past this coming summer. The next few months may be very interesting.

---------- Post added 04-17-15 at 12:44 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Very interesting. I thought that the full frame would occupy the engineering team, but obviously Ricoh is pulling out the stops. I can't see a minor updates making sense, so it will be interesting.

What would make me buy? Especially when I would have to choose?

Better IQ. The k3 is nice but not luscious. A stop or two better noise performance, more depth in the shadows.

Substantial AF performance improvement.

Anything else would be a bonus, but those two together get me spending my money.

A vigorous aps-c offering won't steal any thunder from the full frame to come if it is to be offered to a completely different market. Although I suspect Ricoh is nowhere near that kind of games. Put out the very best you can, get the sales from whatever sells.
Beyond us, as I indicated earlier, Pentax needs something to compete with Nikon's D7200 for the attention of enthusiasts in general, especially since comparisons at the top of the APS-C line seem to have a lot of influence of how people view a brand in general (and thus affects sales up and down the line). A slightly better sensor, both more color depth and more dynamic range, would help a lot. AF speed doesn't seem to influence rankings of cameras very much, but if it bothers people here, then sooner or later it will become an issue. I would also expect a few "whiz bang" features, such as tilting screens and wi-fi would help in the rankings, although I'm not sure if actual users at this level are as enamored with these features as are users of cameras lower in the line.
04-16-2015, 10:18 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I haven't said anything about the name being only K-3II.
So, maybe the name could be K-S3?

04-16-2015, 10:55 PM   #204
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The K-500 was intended to be the entry-level Pentax DSLR body, I thought, but it was terminated a little while ago. There's a problem of definition over what constitutes an entry-level model, which the box-shifters resolve by comparing prices, which means they're establishing a market entry-level based on price. However, in the case of the Pentax range it means the lowest-price model available, which obviously confuses new users who judge mainly on price, because the entry-level Pentax is of a higher general specification than that of other makers (weather-sealing, two control wheels, pentaprism etc) and it costs more than them.

Ricoh's Pentax strategy to date seems to have been home market first, at least while they rebuild the range and the customer base, and hence the K-S1. Whether the K-S2 was intended to be the more serious body for the rest of the world remains to be seen. Certainly, it has been better accepted in these parts. The home market first strategy makes sense because it's a Japanese company and the feedback from sales is quicker and sales in the home currency helps build cash flow quickly. The Q seems to have been more successful in Japan, at least initially, so there's some consistency there. We shouldn't forget that this home market first strategy was historically successful with the Japanese automotive and electronics industries, even if the world was somewhat different then.
04-16-2015, 11:36 PM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Very interesting. I thought that the full frame would occupy the engineering team, but obviously Ricoh is pulling out the stops. I can't see a minor updates making sense, so it will be interesting.

What would make me buy? Especially when I would have to choose?

Better IQ. The k3 is nice but not luscious. A stop or two better noise performance, more depth in the shadows.

Substantial AF performance improvement.

Anything else would be a bonus, but those two together get me spending my money.

A vigorous aps-c offering won't steal any thunder from the full frame to come if it is to be offered to a completely different market. Although I suspect Ricoh is nowhere near that kind of games. Put out the very best you can, get the sales from whatever sells.

It does seem that the Pentax Engineering group has been very busy lately. From what Kenspo had said a few weeks ago, there will be 4 new cameras from the K-S2 to the K-FF this year. These two and the K-3II make 3 this year, I am assuming that an updated GR will be the 4th but we will see.
04-16-2015, 11:51 PM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by GearHead Quote
So, maybe the name could be K-S3?
No. K-S2 etc is a mid-range aps-c..this one is not. Wont be that much change in the name compared to the old one.

---------- Post added 04-17-15 at 08:55 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Black_Wizards Quote
Instead of laughing, could you expose your thoughts about new DC motorised 16-50 and 50-135 f2,8 for APSC coming this years? Am I dreaming?
To be honest, i haven't asked too much about these lenses. I have been too stuck in the Full Frame world But i would be surprised if they didn't upgrade the most popular lenses for aps-c in time..

---------- Post added 04-17-15 at 08:57 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Joshua A Quote
As if, why would anyone want a response from Kenspo? It's not like he has been a highly credible source or anything
You are right. I dont know nothing. Just guessing.

---------- Post added 04-17-15 at 08:59 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
It does seem that the Pentax Engineering group has been very busy lately. From what Kenspo had said a few weeks ago, there will be 4 new cameras from the K-S2 to the K-FF this year. These two and the K-3II make 3 this year, I am assuming that an updated GR will be the 4th but we will see.
They are really busy, and will be for a while But you are right with the GR. They didn't say when it will be out, only that it will come. Im waiting for a new GR myself
04-17-2015, 03:42 AM   #207
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But i will not be talking more about this camera or the coming FF. It seems like someone have been making complains about me to people higher up in the hierarchy. So I'm not gonna risk to be cut off completely. I can answer questions about stuff that has been made public, but that is all. Sorry But so much good times ahead. So smile and be happy..The tide has turned!
04-17-2015, 03:44 AM   #208
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Damn' now that just leaves Asahiman.
04-17-2015, 03:48 AM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Damn' now that just leaves Asahiman.
Sorry. But i won't risk to be cut off completely

Last edited by kenspo; 04-17-2015 at 03:54 AM.
04-17-2015, 04:01 AM   #210
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Because Kenspo can't say anything anymore I've been looking through the comments on digicame-info and found that Sony has a new 24mp sensor for APS-C (Maybe it's in the D7200). Might it be the new sensor for the K-3?

http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/IS/sensor2/products/index.html

It's the: IMX271 24M APS 3.91 19 SLVS 8Lane
SLVS-EC 8Lane RGB DSLR Exmor

new about it is the SLVS instead of sub LVDS It has double the lanes 16 instead of 8 and can do 19 full resolution exposures a second (instead of 8.7 in the old one). Wouldn't it be nice if the K-3 had an adittional electronic shutter mode in which it could shoot 19 fps?

Last edited by D1N0; 04-17-2015 at 04:41 AM.
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