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04-21-2015, 11:51 PM   #571
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Because the GPS is useful and the onboard flash, when used with most zooms, is not. To get a useful flash you need an external unit anyway so why keep pretending the onboard thingy is anything but a gimmick? I give Ricoh points for facing reality and dumping it despite the potential bad reviews.


I still think that people must not use the onboard flash properly and that is why they don't like it. I would hope that people are not using it as their only flash because use in dark rooms at full power, yes the flash sucks. For long zooms they shadow the flash and I could see why people hate it....


But......


There are other things possible, and I say this all along, FILL FLASH. When I have a subject in the shadows or when the sun is behind the subject, fill flash is great, not full power, just to eliminate the shadows in the face of the subject. It doesn't bother shadows from a zoom lens because the face of the subject is most important. Full power ? No way, maybe 1 stop down and it will work great. Do I have an external flash ? Yes. I love my Metz 52 and use it for serious work but if I am walking and want to take a shot, I don't need to pull out another accessory, I can just push the button, adjust the power, picture taken and I am done. I don't know why it is hard to understand.

04-21-2015, 11:55 PM   #572
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IMO as long as this camera can compete heat to heat with the D7200 and perhaps give some little extra this would be great... the problem might come if the camera is behind their competitors. So perhaps we dont expect a camera full of features, but we do expect something that keeps putting the brand on the game. Same as the KS2 needed to stand well against the D5500. I'll love to see around 10 fps so it can be the same as 7Dmk2... its all about marketing
04-22-2015, 12:12 AM   #573
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
I still think that people must not use the onboard flash properly ......... When I have a subject in the shadows or when the sun is behind the subject, fill flash is great, not full power, just to eliminate the shadows in
I'm with you regarding the convienience of having on board flash. Using the K3 as a bit of everything type camera, fill flash is a key part..... maybe only 1 in a 100 shots.....but nice to have. Will miss it for sure. Was anticipating it not being part of the FF offering anyway...... so more practise with the "brush" in lightroom coming my way I guess!

Bye bye to this type of quick shots....

Goolwa Sunflower.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr

reunited.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr

Last edited by noelpolar; 04-22-2015 at 12:19 AM.
04-22-2015, 12:25 AM   #574
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I'm with you regarding the convienience of having on board flash. Using the K3 as a bit of everything type camera, fill flash is a key part..... maybe only 1 in a 100 shots.....but nice to have. Will miss it for sure. Was anticipating it not being part of the FF offering anyway...... so more practise with the "brush" in lightroom coming my way I guess!

Bye bye to this type of quick shots....

Goolwa Sunflower.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr

reunited.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr


Yeah, or as others say, keep your external with you at all times. Lack of convenience sucks.


I can see it now, leave my bag in my car and just have my camera and lens, walk around with a shot ready to go and then, oh wait, I did not bring my flash, I need to go back to get it. I come back and the light is off, or if I have friends in the shadows and tell them be right back. I could see pro users who spend a majority of their time shooting in studio don't really care about and an onboard and I would not care in that situation either. But you have a WR camera and lens combo so you most likely want to be out and about, and there are many times when I don't want to carry my camera bag with me, just my camera.


Nice pics by the way

04-22-2015, 12:35 AM - 4 Likes   #575
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I am mostly a reader here and do not comment that often, but now I feel the urge to respond. Why? Because of all the complaining people who apparantly live in a fairy world where an upgrade/facelift of an existing product leads to a whole different camera. given the chassis that Pentax already have and continue to use, that is simply impossible. We all know that space is limited in such a top level DSLR, so if you want to add stuff, sometimes you have to get rid of something else.


Remember the announcement of K5-II/IIs? People were not too excited about just an updated AF (just more light sensitive, nothing else remember?) and the option to ditch the filter, but it turned out to be a fabulous camera that earned his spot next to the much appraised and beloved K-5. This time we might get:
- an improved sensor
- improved AF
- pixelshift enhancing resolution
- improved stabilisation (3.5 -> 4.5 stops)
- GPS with astrotracer


And people are complaining that the onboard flash has gone? Really? This is a major upgrade in almost all areas! If anything it will encourage customers to buy an external flash (which does not necessarily have to be expensive) and discover how nice it is to take pictures with a proper flash. I agree that wifi instead of Flu card is still something to be desired, but I am sure that will be fixed in the new chassis of the successor of the K-3II, because than they can really start from scratch and create space to fit new components. We might even get the onboard flash back ;-). Furthermore it is just ridiculous that people ditch a camera before they have even seen one single shot made with it, it is not all about the specifications people, it is about the end result: a nice photograph. If you do not need these improvements be happy, it will save you money, but I for one am very happy that Pentax really makes an effort and does that so much earlier than many anticipated.


So could we please stop complaining and just wait for the full and official specs tomorrow? Please?


My two cents is that the K3 will continue to be sold with the K3II.
04-22-2015, 12:36 AM   #576
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
An alternate POV:

Thank goodness they got rid of that vestigial built-in flash. I've been carrying around that useless POS all these years and in the handful of times I used it it was pretty much crap. GPS will be much more useful for me. If I need extra light, I'll carry a real flash.
And if I need to know where I am, I will carry an atlas...

As has been said, the GPS has zero effect on IQ. Whereas the built-in flash is not a substitute for s "real" flash, it still has its purposes, especially when you didn't want to carry one in the first place.

I'm willing to bet that more people would find the built-in flash more useful than the GPS.
04-22-2015, 01:24 AM   #577
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
I can see it now, leave my bag in my car and just have my camera and lens, walk around with a shot ready to go and then, oh wait, I did not bring my flash, I need to go back to get it. I come back and the light is off, or if I have friends in the shadows and tell them be right back. I could see pro users who spend a majority of their time shooting in studio don't really care about and an onboard and I would not care in that situation either. But you have a WR camera and lens combo so you most likely want to be out and about, and there are many times when I don't want to carry my camera bag with me, just my camera.
Sounds like the original K-3 is right up your alley then. But someone who values geotagging/astrotracer has had to carry around the O-GPS1 module up to now instead of just their camera. And they had to pony up an extra $200 for the accessory. Now the situation is flipped and those who want flash functionality will have to buy an external flash.

QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
And if I need to know where I am, I will carry an atlas...

As has been said, the GPS has zero effect on IQ. Whereas the built-in flash is not a substitute for s "real" flash, it still has its purposes, especially when you didn't want to carry one in the first place.

I'm willing to bet that more people would find the built-in flash more useful than the GPS.
It has an effect on the IQ your starscape photos!

And yes, I imagine you are right on the last point. Ricoh has made a change--we the market will tell them if it is a smart one.

I seem to be hearing a lot of "This is barely an upgrade, why bother?" right along side "These changes suck and harm the camera!"....so for these people I say, the K-3 is still being sold new, and no doubt the K-3II will debut at a higher price. So go for the K-3 and be happy.

Me? I would miss the flash on occasions, yes. And I do wish they added WiFi and did away with this FluCard kludge. But the GPS/astrotracer would definitely get used in my hands.
04-22-2015, 01:30 AM   #578
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
Yeah, or as others say, keep your external with you at all times. Lack of convenience sucks.


I can see it now, leave my bag in my car and just have my camera and lens, walk around with a shot ready to go and then, oh wait, I did not bring my flash, I need to go back to get it. I come back and the light is off, or if I have friends in the shadows and tell them be right back. I could see pro users who spend a majority of their time shooting in studio don't really care about and an onboard and I would not care in that situation either. But you have a WR camera and lens combo so you most likely want to be out and about, and there are many times when I don't want to carry my camera bag with me, just my camera.


Nice pics by the way
Oh, come on, this is starting to get ridiculous. No offence, but what is wrong with a model in the portfolio of a manufacturer that gives costumers another ADDITIONAL choice? It is not terminating all K-3 the moment it is presented but gives people a choice. I just ask everybody who says this is only a insignificant update to the k-3 and even worse, he WILL miss some of their features, but why SHOULD he? The K-3 is still there, it will be there and a new model will come soon, but probably only after the FF has been released, but there is nothing wrong with the k-3, especially if it seems to tick so many boxes for you.

04-22-2015, 01:37 AM   #579
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Oh, come on, this is starting to get ridiculous. No offence, but what is wrong with a model in the portfolio of a manufacturer that gives costumers another ADDITIONAL choice? It is not terminating all K-3 the moment it is presented but gives people a choice. I just ask everybody who says this is only a insignificant update to the k-3 and even worse, he WILL miss some of their features, but why SHOULD he? The K-3 is still there, it will be there and a new model will come soon, but probably only after the FF has been released, but there is nothing wrong with the k-3, especially if it seems to tick so many boxes for you.
If Pentax are removing the built-in flash on their higher-end cameras now I doubt it will be returning in a future K-2. That's the problem. Obviously people with a K-3 can continue to use their built-in flashes.
04-22-2015, 01:57 AM   #580
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QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
Sounds like the original K-3 is right up your alley then. But someone who values geotagging/astrotracer has had to carry around the O-GPS1 module up to now instead of just their camera. And they had to pony up an extra $200 for the accessory. Now the situation is flipped and those who want flash functionality will have to buy an external flash.



It has an effect on the IQ your starscape photos!

And yes, I imagine you are right on the last point. Ricoh has made a change--we the market will tell them if it is a smart one.

I seem to be hearing a lot of "This is barely an upgrade, why bother?" right along side "These changes suck and harm the camera!"....so for these people I say, the K-3 is still being sold new, and no doubt the K-3II will debut at a higher price. So go for the K-3 and be happy.

Me? I would miss the flash on occasions, yes. And I do wish they added WiFi and did away with this FluCard kludge. But the GPS/astrotracer would definitely get used in my hands.

I see a poll thread coming.


I agree with you and am happy that you have the build in GPS. In your hands it is a major upgrade and that is what will make a camera great for you. My problem is why downgrade one area to upgrade another, why not do both and all people would be happy.
04-22-2015, 02:06 AM   #581
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For those who want an onboard flash, it seems this body won't be for you. I do wonder, though, why camera-makers haven't gone the way of the phone camera makers and moved to on-board high-intensity LEDs. They take less power and less space, and you can mount them in a number of places for different effects (the K-S1 seems to have missed this opportunity). Perhaps we'll see them in a future DSLR.
04-22-2015, 02:19 AM   #582
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QuoteOriginally posted by noelpolar Quote
I'm with you regarding the convienience of having on board flash. Using the K3 as a bit of everything type camera, fill flash is a key part..... maybe only 1 in a 100 shots.....but nice to have.

Goolwa Sunflower.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr

reunited.jpg
by Noelpolar, on Flickr
Thank you Noel for showing these nice pics as a motivation. They remind me on the image-enhancing possibilities of using it as a shadow fill flash outdoors. Obviously this can make the difference to a pic. I think I will use it more often and more deliberately from now on I also just ordered a tiny foldeable "soft-box" for pop-up flashes. Great for vacation (doesn't weigh anything) and it is brand-neutral (as usual for such stuff) so that I can use it on my next, previous and future DSLRs.

Last edited by Frater; 04-22-2015 at 02:30 AM.
04-22-2015, 02:36 AM   #583
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
I still think that people must not use the onboard flash properly and that is why they don't like it..
You may be right there about some people. However, I do not like any flash, period. So definitely not unhappy to see the on-board flas make way to GPS which is much more useful for me.
04-22-2015, 02:54 AM   #584
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I still would like to have a built in flash just in case of emergencies. Anyway, I wouldn't fret over since it doesn't have it. I would prefer no hardware problems such as the mirror flap. As soon as I have the funds, I might get one.
04-22-2015, 02:55 AM   #585
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QuoteOriginally posted by kooks Quote
I'll love to see around 10 fps so it can be the same as 7Dmk2... its all about marketing
yep, all about marketing but not all to much about photography
When ever someone mentions fps, that reminds me on DigitalRev TV's video where Kai makes fun of a certain type of photographer using an expensive Canon body with a high FPS (coincidentially 10 fps) but no flash. Yes he also makes fun about having no pop-up flash, but a big external one instead ("my assistant carries it for me"). One of my favourite DigitalRev TV videos

What I would be interested myself, with regards to fps: Will it be possible to tune it towards your sweet spoot of your specific work. For myself (people photo), I would regard 4 fps as my sweet spot, possibly even less, because body language expressions don't change that quickly. Hope that PDF manuals will be downloadable soon. The D7200 offers this flexibility (any fps number starting from 1), just checked its PDF manual.

Last edited by Frater; 04-22-2015 at 03:28 AM.
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