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04-22-2015, 07:56 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I have a theory about that.
Some people love to complain so much that they're afraid to wait for the facts, just in case it turns out the specs are something they actually like. They don't want to risk having nothing to complain about so get an early start.
hehe..you might be on to something here

04-22-2015, 07:59 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I guess someone always will complain



Oh well..their loss..Negativity never makes the day better
I really don't understand. The K3 II is going to have features built in that Canon and Nikon can't build into their cameras, even if they wanted to. Assuming there really is improvement in SR, that alone will bump image quality in a lot of settings. Assuming better sensor, I can't see being so upset at the lack of a pop up flash.

I remember when people were asking for a kx sensor in a K7 body. And then a full frame sensor in a K3 body (which wouldn't work). Now, people complain when you give them five new features and take one thing away that most upper end amateur/pros wouldn't use anyway.

My guess is that a lot of the people who are complaining weren't going to buy a K3 II anyway -- at least not at anywhere close to the release price. If you need to convince yourself that you don't need a new camera, then that's fine, but there is no sense beating the package up before we have even seen what it is really going to look like.
04-22-2015, 08:06 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really don't understand. The K3 II is going to have features built in that Canon and Nikon can't build into their cameras, even if they wanted to. Assuming there really is improvement in SR, that alone will bump image quality in a lot of settings. Assuming better sensor, I can't see being so upset at the lack of a pop up flash.

I remember when people were asking for a kx sensor in a K7 body. And then a full frame sensor in a K3 body (which wouldn't work). Now, people complain when you give them five new features and take one thing away that most upper end amateur/pros wouldn't use anyway.

My guess is that a lot of the people who are complaining weren't going to buy a K3 II anyway -- at least not at anywhere close to the release price. If you need to convince yourself that you don't need a new camera, then that's fine, but there is no sense beating the package up before we have even seen what it is really going to look like.
I guess the point is that none of these things require the pop-up flash to be removed - logically anyway (maybe Pentax had to but I can't think how these things interact in such a way that would require it to go). It's possible that the GPS module could only be fitted in by doing so, but that's not the same kind of development as improved SR, DR, IQ etc. I think that is why people are bemused by it's removal.

And quite frankly I think it's legitimate to be annoyed if something you use is removed from future iterations of a product. It doesn't in anyway make the K-3II a failure or say anything about it's potentially improved IQ.
04-22-2015, 08:09 AM   #634
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No flash is an usp for the K3II (among other things) there are no other aps-c dslrs without a pop up flash.

04-22-2015, 08:12 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
a camera which helps him to keep track of his phototours, even allows him to filter and sort his entire photocollection by coutry, location, site and helps him to find photos of a certain area
Don't know if you didn't know, but this is what I'm doing already since 2013, w/o the need for an expensive camera GPS unit just like so many others.

My Garmin etrex 20 records my track while I'm hiking or driving. It creates and stores a track file on its SD card. A track is just a dense chain of positions, each tagged with the satellite's time.

Back at home, some software (in my case: GeoSetter) reads all recorded tracks, and transfers track positions to my files' metadata.


Someone could use his/her smartphone as well, instead of a Garmin. There are apps around from recording tracks to full-blown offline navigation.

This is what I meant when I said, that the GPS inclusion into cameras is redundant for those already having already a GPS device with them (such as a smartphone, a handheld GPS, or a car GPS).

Having the GPS in cam has the advantage of course, that this adds some comfort and relief for those, which want an as-easy-as-possible solution w/o the requirement to get familar with geotagging with smartphone apps and the help of 3rd party helper software. The price to pay is, that this sucks up the camera battery charge.


I don't comprehend yet, why the loss of the pop-up flash was requried. Aren't there DSLRs around yet, which have both GPS and a pop-up Flash? My suspicion is, that Ricoh may want to bully customers into buying an expensive and profitable system flash unit.

Last edited by Frater; 04-22-2015 at 08:30 AM.
04-22-2015, 08:15 AM   #636
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I guess the point is that none of these things require the pop-up flash to be removed - logically anyway (maybe Pentax had to but I can't think how these things interact in such a way that would require it to go). It's possible that the GPS module could only be fitted in by doing so, but that's not the same kind of development as improved SR, DR, IQ etc. I think that is why people are bemused by it's removal.

And quite frankly I think it's legitimate to be annoyed if something you use is removed from future iterations of a product. It doesn't in anyway make the K-3II a failure or say anything about it's potentially improved IQ.
Your guess is not quite a professional engineer opinion. Apparently they didn't make the hump any smaller, so perhaps they had design issues. Right now everything we, all of us, say is spoken out of ignorance.
04-22-2015, 08:15 AM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I really don't understand. The K3 II is going to have features built in that Canon and Nikon can't build into their cameras, even if they wanted to. Assuming there really is improvement in SR, that alone will bump image quality in a lot of settings. Assuming better sensor, I can't see being so upset at the lack of a pop up flash.

I remember when people were asking for a kx sensor in a K7 body. And then a full frame sensor in a K3 body (which wouldn't work). Now, people complain when you give them five new features and take one thing away that most upper end amateur/pros wouldn't use anyway.

My guess is that a lot of the people who are complaining weren't going to buy a K3 II anyway -- at least not at anywhere close to the release price. If you need to convince yourself that you don't need a new camera, then that's fine, but there is no sense beating the package up before we have even seen what it is really going to look like.
Don't discount the probability that at least some of these people are actually paid to spread FUD.
04-22-2015, 08:16 AM   #638
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Think its best i stop posting. I get flagged and recive warnings..

04-22-2015, 08:17 AM   #639
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
the difference in picture quality will be so noticable, that i really can't understand all the complaining. And this even without knowing everything the K-3 Mark II will feature. Some people....Oh well, someone will never be satisfied no matter what
28MP BSI Confirmed

K3 -> D7200 sensor is another plus if you are buying your first Pentax (like me) or have an X<24 MP camera, but not enough alone to justify the upgrade from a K3 imo. It's just icing on the cake, if the cake is better too however, it might be worth it even for K3 owners, only time will tell.

K3 is still selling for over $1000 in Europe. If the price doesn't drop significantly after the new APS-C flagship, buying the K3II instead of the K3 will be a no brainer.
04-22-2015, 08:17 AM - 2 Likes   #640
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Don't know if you didn't know, but this is what I'm doing already since 2013, w/o the need for an expensive camera GPS unit.

My Garmin etrex 20 records my track while I'm hiking or driving. It creates and stores a track file on its SD card. A track is just a dense chain of positions, each tagged with the satellite's time.

Back at home, some software (in my case: GeoSetter) reads all recorded tracks, and transfers track positions to my files' metadata.


Someone could use his/her smartphone as well, instead of a Garmin. There are apps around from recording tracks to full-blown offline navigation.

This is what I meant when I said, that the GPS inclusion into cameras is redundant for those already having already a GPS device with them (such as a smartphone, a handheld GPS, or a car GPS).

Having the GPS in cam has the advantage of course, that this adds some comfort and relief for those, which want an as-easy-as-possible solution w/o the requirement to get familar with geotagging with smartphone apps and the help of 3rd party helper software.
There's also a flash in my smartphone and a camera. Entire dslr redundant. What was Pentax thinking!
04-22-2015, 08:18 AM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Think its best i stop posting. I get flagged and recive warnings..
Yes, most of us can hold our impatience for eight hours.
04-22-2015, 08:20 AM   #642
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Don't discount the possibility that Pentax considers removing the flash to a positive model differentiator - that they did it on purpose, to be different, because they think the camera will be better received by their target buyers that way. They make other camera bodies that have an on-board flash. What if the objectors aren't their target buyers?

What if their attitude is, "If you want a camera with these features, of this IQ, AND an on-board flash - and you think you can get it elsewhere - well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do"?
04-22-2015, 08:23 AM   #643
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, most of us can hold our impatience for eight hours.
good "Inappropriate conduct"..Will have to re-think what i write..haha
04-22-2015, 08:23 AM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Don't discount the possibility that Pentax considers removing the flash to a positive model differentiator - that the did it on purpose, to be different, because they think the camera will be better received by their target buyers that way. They make other camera bodies that have an on-board flash.

What if their attitude is, "If you want a camera with these features, of this IQ, AND an on-board flash - and you think you can get it elsewhere, well, ya gotta do what ya gotta do."
True. I kind of figured that would be why the FF wasn't going to have an onboard flash, it was a surprise to me that they would do it for their APS-C line as well.
04-22-2015, 08:27 AM   #645
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Here's the official guide to some of the K3ii features (prematurely released from Adorama), Mistral was kind enough to save a copy for us.
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