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04-22-2015, 08:27 AM   #646
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
True. I kind of figured that would be why the FF wasn't going to have an onboard flash, it was a surprise to me that they would do it for their APS-C line as well.
It could also be a trial run for the full-frame camera; maybe they have made the K-3ii as much like the full-frame camera as they can. They may be carefully watching how the K-3ii is received in case they need to make some last minute adjustments to the full-frame variant (and then slide its intro date a tad). As I have commented multiple times, we are all "shooting in the dark" (i.e., we are all just guessing).

04-22-2015, 08:28 AM   #647
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
No flash is an usp for the K3II (among other things) there are no other aps-c dslrs without a pop up flash.
APS-C DSLR right, but Fuji X-T1 or Olympus E-M1 don't have internal flash either.
But : externat flash is always provided with X-T1 body for example.
Doing so with K-3II and adding only 100 bucks to the invoice would be an appropriate marketing arrangement....
04-22-2015, 08:28 AM - 1 Like   #648
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Don't know if you didn't know, but this is what I'm doing already since 2013, w/o the need for an expensive camera GPS unit.

My Garmin etrex 20 records my track while I'm hiking or driving. It creates and stores a track file on its SD card. A track is just a dense chain of positions, each tagged with the satellite's time.

Back at home, some software (in my case: GeoSetter) reads all recorded tracks, and transfers track positions to my files' metadata.


Someone could use his/her smartphone as well, instead of a Garmin. There are apps around from recording tracks to full-blown offline navigation.

This is what I meant when I said, that the GPS inclusion into cameras is redundant for those already having already a GPS device with them (such as a smartphone, a handheld GPS, or a car GPS).

Having the GPS in cam has the advantage of course, that this adds some comfort and relief for those, which want an as-easy-as-possible solution w/o the requirement to get familar with geotagging with smartphone apps and the help of 3rd party helper software.
Everyone knows this. And it is extremely inconvenient. I have GPS on the phone too, it isn't exactly new to anyone these days.

Having the GPS in the camera is not at all redundant: it is implemented exactly the way it should.

Why should anyone prefer the need to 'get familiar with apps and 3rd party software'? Because they want to experience more hardship and inconvenience? I have much better things to do on my spare time than that.

You don't like the model then don't buy it, very simple.
04-22-2015, 08:31 AM - 1 Like   #649
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
I think it is wrong to assume, that everyone who travels to explore landscapes and cities just throws a cheapo cam into their luggage, so that a K-3(ii) would be too expensive. Remember Leica M. Or think about Fuji X-T1. Or Olympus. These are examples of very compact and expensive high-end systems, perfect for the ambitious (or even perfectionist) city traveller or hiking landscape explorer.
I'm not sure anyone's assuming that people use cheapo cameras for travel photography. In any case, the KS-2 is hardly a cheapo camera, nor is the K-50 for that matter (although it's inexpensive). Either of those cameras is fine for travel if you need a camera with a built-in flash.

As for the Leica M, the Fuji XT-1, and the Olympus EM-5 and EM-1 cameras: yes, those are more expensive lightweight travel cameras. But none of those cameras come with a built-in flash! (Nor does the Sony A7 series of cameras.) So for those arguing that the K-3ii should have a built-in flash so it can check the lightweight travel camera box, well, many of the top compact mirrorless bodies lack that built-in flash as well.

Pentax is trying to produce a pro caliber APS-C camera. The "pro" designation does not mean gear only fit for professional use. It just means that it's gear for photographers who have a no compromise attitude when it comes to producing images. For such photographers, a built-in flash constitutes too much of a compromise. If you want the best possible image and you need extra light, you'll bring real flashes. And you'll probably use those flashes off the camera.

04-22-2015, 08:33 AM   #650
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Has anyone started a "Why I won't buy a K-3 II" thread yet?
04-22-2015, 08:39 AM - 2 Likes   #651
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Has anyone started a "Why I won't buy a K-3 II" thread yet?
I thought this (or the K-3II specs thread) was the "Why I won't buy a K-3 II" thread...
04-22-2015, 08:40 AM   #652
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Having been disabused of the notion that the K-3 is a K-5, (boriscleto'ed™) now must redirect our attention by claiming the K-3 / K3II is a lightweight travel camera. People who want to travel with a GOOD camera will obviously choose a Fuji (or Leica) hipster travel camera. No one who knows anything would ever be caught with a lowly Pentax. They're for the flatlanders, the flyovers and the lowly consumers.

These are classic Alinsky tactics. Brother went to an elite school and learned his anarchist / socialist history very well.

Identify. Isolate. Other. Destroy.
04-22-2015, 09:00 AM   #653
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I also hope they use the newer version of the 24 megapixel sensor.

04-22-2015, 09:03 AM   #654
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I think some people are forgetting that the GPS is also there for the astrotracer. Look at the Astrotracer unit. Now take that and put it in a k-3. It doesn't fit!

Now take off the flash, strip the astrotracer, and see what happens? Tadaaa, k-3II!

Anyways, I wish I knew they were going to do this because then I'd have waited for the k-3II
04-22-2015, 09:08 AM - 1 Like   #655
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Don't discount the probability that at least some of these people are actually paid to spread FUD.
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
04-22-2015, 09:10 AM   #656
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
APS-C DSLR right, but Fuji X-T1 or Olympus E-M1 don't have internal flash either.
But : externat flash is always provided with X-T1 body for example.
Doing so with K-3II and adding only 100 bucks to the invoice would be an appropriate marketing arrangement....
Removing the flash is a big change. It is obvious, and on it's own for many a non starter. So obvious, such a cheap little accessory already designed and implemented, why not put it there?

So I ask, why not put it there?

1.The space is required for something else that we don't know about, that is far more valuable for users than a flash.
a. The GPS. They are tiny modules, probably small enough to fit in the same space as the button. Doesn't make sense.
b. A new viewfinder technology? That would take room.
c. A new and different focus/metering/mirror technology implementation.

2. The flash itself it of very limited use, what I use it for is a trigger for remote flashes. Pentax is going to introduce a seriously revamped flash system.

3. Pentax is differentiating their target market. Serious amateurs and pros, assuming the triggering functionality is there, don't use the internal flash and have other hardware. So they are moving the aps-c upmarket a bit. I may be wrong, but I see no reason why the K-3 which they can sell profitably for $800 with an improved firmware taking better advantage of the existing hardware cannot be maintained in production as a high midrange aps-c model.

4. Ricoh has lost their mind.

I don't discount #4. Pentax is Doooomed!!!
04-22-2015, 09:15 AM   #657
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
I also hope they use the newer version of the 24 megapixel sensor.
It' will, the latest offering from Sony...
04-22-2015, 09:20 AM   #658
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
I guess I'm consoled by the idea that it's only PF - it isn't the BBC or World News Tonight.

I get more upset by disingenuous reviews on influential websites.
04-22-2015, 09:21 AM   #659
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Removing the flash is a big change. It is obvious, and on it's own for many a non starter. So obvious, such a cheap little accessory already designed and implemented, why not put it there?

So I ask, why not put it there?

1.The space is required for something else that we don't know about, that is far more valuable for users than a flash.
a. The GPS. They are tiny modules, probably small enough to fit in the same space as the button. Doesn't make sense.
b. A new viewfinder technology? That would take room.
c. A new and different focus/metering/mirror technology implementation.

2. The flash itself it of very limited use, what I use it for is a trigger for remote flashes. Pentax is going to introduce a seriously revamped flash system.

3. Pentax is differentiating their target market. Serious amateurs and pros, assuming the triggering functionality is there, don't use the internal flash and have other hardware. So they are moving the aps-c upmarket a bit. I may be wrong, but I see no reason why the K-3 which they can sell profitably for $800 with an improved firmware taking better advantage of the existing hardware cannot be maintained in production as a high midrange aps-c model.

4. Ricoh has lost their mind.

I don't discount #4. Pentax is Doooomed!!!
Those are interesting thoughts, and probably at least one of them are on target! The need for a revamped pTTL system is long overdue, but seems unlikely given that new flashes were introduced recently. I use the K-3 flash as an optical trigger - and the ratio system works flawlessly to allow for any amount of fill as needed (up to full power, obviously). The only complication is if you have a group situation with other flashes going off, then you have to go with direct connection. When used properly as a secondary light, the built-in is quite essential. Having a little bit of light front near the optics is often very helpful.
04-22-2015, 09:22 AM   #660
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
The funny thing is, they are digging a grave for someone who isn't even born yet.
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