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04-22-2015, 09:10 AM   #661
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
APS-C DSLR right, but Fuji X-T1 or Olympus E-M1 don't have internal flash either.
But : externat flash is always provided with X-T1 body for example.
Doing so with K-3II and adding only 100 bucks to the invoice would be an appropriate marketing arrangement....
Removing the flash is a big change. It is obvious, and on it's own for many a non starter. So obvious, such a cheap little accessory already designed and implemented, why not put it there?

So I ask, why not put it there?

1.The space is required for something else that we don't know about, that is far more valuable for users than a flash.
a. The GPS. They are tiny modules, probably small enough to fit in the same space as the button. Doesn't make sense.
b. A new viewfinder technology? That would take room.
c. A new and different focus/metering/mirror technology implementation.

2. The flash itself it of very limited use, what I use it for is a trigger for remote flashes. Pentax is going to introduce a seriously revamped flash system.

3. Pentax is differentiating their target market. Serious amateurs and pros, assuming the triggering functionality is there, don't use the internal flash and have other hardware. So they are moving the aps-c upmarket a bit. I may be wrong, but I see no reason why the K-3 which they can sell profitably for $800 with an improved firmware taking better advantage of the existing hardware cannot be maintained in production as a high midrange aps-c model.

4. Ricoh has lost their mind.

I don't discount #4. Pentax is Doooomed!!!

04-22-2015, 09:15 AM   #662
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QuoteOriginally posted by traderdrew Quote
I also hope they use the newer version of the 24 megapixel sensor.
It' will, the latest offering from Sony...
04-22-2015, 09:20 AM   #663
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
I guess I'm consoled by the idea that it's only PF - it isn't the BBC or World News Tonight.

I get more upset by disingenuous reviews on influential websites.
04-22-2015, 09:21 AM   #664
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Removing the flash is a big change. It is obvious, and on it's own for many a non starter. So obvious, such a cheap little accessory already designed and implemented, why not put it there?

So I ask, why not put it there?

1.The space is required for something else that we don't know about, that is far more valuable for users than a flash.
a. The GPS. They are tiny modules, probably small enough to fit in the same space as the button. Doesn't make sense.
b. A new viewfinder technology? That would take room.
c. A new and different focus/metering/mirror technology implementation.

2. The flash itself it of very limited use, what I use it for is a trigger for remote flashes. Pentax is going to introduce a seriously revamped flash system.

3. Pentax is differentiating their target market. Serious amateurs and pros, assuming the triggering functionality is there, don't use the internal flash and have other hardware. So they are moving the aps-c upmarket a bit. I may be wrong, but I see no reason why the K-3 which they can sell profitably for $800 with an improved firmware taking better advantage of the existing hardware cannot be maintained in production as a high midrange aps-c model.

4. Ricoh has lost their mind.

I don't discount #4. Pentax is Doooomed!!!
Those are interesting thoughts, and probably at least one of them are on target! The need for a revamped pTTL system is long overdue, but seems unlikely given that new flashes were introduced recently. I use the K-3 flash as an optical trigger - and the ratio system works flawlessly to allow for any amount of fill as needed (up to full power, obviously). The only complication is if you have a group situation with other flashes going off, then you have to go with direct connection. When used properly as a secondary light, the built-in is quite essential. Having a little bit of light front near the optics is often very helpful.

04-22-2015, 09:22 AM   #665
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
The funny thing is, they are digging a grave for someone who isn't even born yet.
04-22-2015, 09:28 AM   #666
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QuoteOriginally posted by Solaire Quote
The funny thing is, they are digging a grave for someone who isn't even born yet.
That's the basic idea. People do it politicians all the time.
04-22-2015, 09:32 AM - 2 Likes   #667
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I suppose so. I probably should just ignore people who are stirring the pot. It is just frustrating when every new release is punctuated by crazy Pentaxians or pseudo Pentaxians coming out of the wood work to shoot holes in the new offering for what it isn't.
Shooters gonna shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot;

Complainers gonna 'plain, 'plain, 'plain, 'plain, 'plain;

Just shake it off (and go shoot some pictures).
04-22-2015, 09:39 AM   #668
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Removing the flash is a big change [...] such a cheap little accessory already designed and implemented, why not put it there?

I suspect, it is because Ricoh may want to increase sales revenues by bullying K-3ii users into purchasing expensive and profitable flash units. Maybe they had already similar hopes in 2013/14 for the external GPS unit, but only very few K-3 users were actually interested? (most have a smartphone already, and astro fans do astro stacking).
Even if the GPS is still not needed, the actual purpose for its inclusion may be to be an excuse for taking out the flash.

But who knows, hopefully some better and more valid excuse could come along tomorrow (such as related to the viewfinder), as some speculated.

Also, they may have withheld wireless (which even the D7200 features by now) for the same reason, it generates additional profit to bully users into purchasing expensive flu cards.

To me, both of the above would be a subcategory of theory no. 4
QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
4. Ricoh has lost their mind.
simply because there are competitors out like the D7200, which offers both flash and wireless as part of its package without bullying anyone into anything. Maybe Ricoh didn't account for this, because the D7200 and the K-3ii were parallel developments.


Last edited by Frater; 04-22-2015 at 10:10 AM.
04-22-2015, 09:56 AM   #669
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I'm surprised they called this camera the K-3II, as it has quite a number of changes. Either way, good stuff. This is basically making another APSC flagship, a pro crop sensor camera. This is pretty good, I think. Pentax is doing some good stuff recently. The K-5 was a success, K-5IIs as well, then the 645Z, the K-S2 brings a number of new things, K-3II is another jump.. future looks bright.
04-22-2015, 10:05 AM - 1 Like   #670
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
I'm surprised they called this camera the K-3II, as it has quite a number of changes. Either way, good stuff. This is basically making another APSC flagship, a pro crop sensor camera. This is pretty good, I think. Pentax is doing some good stuff recently. The K-5 was a success, K-5IIs as well, then the 645Z, the K-S2 brings a number of new things, K-3II is another jump.. future looks bright.
You are paraphrasing the prophetic words of Kenspo you know,
04-22-2015, 10:10 AM   #671
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
Those are interesting thoughts, and probably at least one of them are on target! The need for a revamped pTTL system is long overdue, but seems unlikely given that new flashes were introduced recently. I use the K-3 flash as an optical trigger - and the ratio system works flawlessly to allow for any amount of fill as needed (up to full power, obviously). The only complication is if you have a group situation with other flashes going off, then you have to go with direct connection. When used properly as a secondary light, the built-in is quite essential. Having a little bit of light front near the optics is often very helpful.
The small point-source flash was added to SLR cameras about the same time auto focus was added and mediocre f-stop variable-focus kit lenses replaced fast prime kit lenses. At the time, I thought the manufacturers were trying to make it easier for point-and-shoot users to upgrade to SLRs. Maybe they have finally reached the point of understanding that you can pack only so much into a box, so Pentax is trying to do fewer things but do them very well. After all, part of the ambiance of SLR has always been that they provide a basic system that does a very good job, and then the user can add components based on his/her needs. Personally, I have never found optical trigger to work reliably for me, so I would much much rather have an RF trigger.

---------- Post added 04-22-15 at 01:23 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
I suspect, it is because Ricoh may want to increase sales revenues by bullying K-3ii users into purchasing expensive and profitable flash units.
But who knows, hopefully some better and more valid excuse could come along tomorrow (such as related to the viewfinder), as some speculated.
I don't like use of the term "bully" when applied to Pentax-Ricoh; it implies at attitude that I have no reason to expect, and it implies a power which simply is not there. Not even dominant companies, such as Nikon, Canon, IBM, and Microsoft have been able to force users to go where the users don't want to go. In this case, you could always buy an RF unit system from some other company, such as the Cactus system that was recently made available to us, or one of the many external flash systems from companies that aren't connected to Ricoh in any way. My Super Program did not come with a flash, but that didn't cause me to buy a Pentax flash back in the day when Pentax had much more market power - I bought a Vivitar flash which I still have (and which I frequently use with my Q7). Incidentally, my Q7 replaced a Canon Elph, and one of my requirements was a hot-shoe so I could get away from using a tiny point-source on the body of the camera.
04-22-2015, 10:37 AM   #672
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I have a theory about that.
Some people love to complain so much that they're afraid to wait for the facts, just in case it turns out the specs are something they actually like. They don't want to risk having nothing to complain about so get an early start.
Yes, this seems to be true. But, we are people, we have to say something. Fortunately, I have learn to be patient from my cat, mostly, and from my yoga exercise, a little. So, tomorrow morning, I'll will be all over photo news.

But still, no tilting display?
04-22-2015, 10:47 AM   #673
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
But still, no tilting display?
Read Mistral75's posts about why. They'd need to completely redesign the body. K-3 actually still uses the basic K-7 body. K-S2 includes the articulated screen in an entirely new body. That form will be the basic form for that range of cameras for about 6 years.

Look for the FF body to be the base for many generations of SLR bodies in both formats - and what do you think it will include?

If I am correct they've just made a clear and distinct market segmentation between consumers / advanced consumers (flippy screen body) and enthusiast / prosumer / professional (hinged LCD body).

Pretty slick if you ask me.
04-22-2015, 10:48 AM   #674
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
No flash is an usp for the K3II (among other things) there are no other aps-c dslrs without a pop up flash.
No, but it's entirely possible that this camera will set a new standard in Pro-level APS-C, and hence it does not have to emulate existing hardware. As has already been pointed out, serious cameras of the past never had a built-in flash.
04-22-2015, 10:56 AM   #675
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If they don't make a tilting-articulated display, I will skip this K-3II and I will make my own tilting display, at almost no cost. Just wait a little
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