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04-22-2015, 03:48 PM - 1 Like   #721
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
P.S.: nothing personal, kenspo, I appreciate your work and your dedication to the Pentax brand.
I don't take it personal. I stick my head out there on my own. But if i get told wrong info, its not to evangelize the masses. That would backfire. There is a few people who will receive a phonecall from me, even before i've made the first cup of coffee.

04-22-2015, 04:41 PM - 1 Like   #722
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Think its best i stop posting. I get flagged and recive warnings..
I've entertained that train of thought many times. But then, I have a stubborn streak a mile wide.

I've been assigned so many warnings etc. I know which moderator has taken it on themselves to correct my errant behaviour by the syntax of the warning.

Last edited by normhead; 04-22-2015 at 04:47 PM.
04-22-2015, 04:58 PM - 1 Like   #723
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I've entertained that train of thought many times. But then, I have a stubborn streak a mile wide.

I've been assigned so many warnings etc. I know which moderator has taken it on themselves to correct my errant behaviour by the syntax of the warning.
I've never gotten that astute, but by checking which Mods are online I can pretty correctly moderate my tone.

Of course every time my tone becomes immoderate I forget to check which Mods are here
04-22-2015, 05:02 PM - 2 Likes   #724
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScooterMaxi Jim Quote
Everyone has a right to their opinion regarding the significance of on-board flash use, especially if you have worked extensively with pTTL, real TTL, auto, ratio, studio lighting, ring, RF, etc. The idea that - all other things being equal with a camera - you are better off without an on-board flash - because its just marketing, or it makes you less professional is an emotional response without rational basis, however. The K-3 has ratio flash to provide the perfect amount of eye area fill to add a natural look to eyes (when combined with other, stronger light sources). As none of these other light sources have the ability to be conveniently triggered from close to the optics, on-board is extremely useful for these situations - when used intelligently. You also have the ability to work with light modifiers (Demb Pop-Up most notably) to create soft multi-flash effects. This can be essential for subjects who are unsettled by larger flash set ups, or even a ring light. The intimidation of these unknown elements can register in uneasy expressions, especially in children. If nothing else, on occasion someone will ask for a shot that wasn't in the plan, and simply requires portable lighting. As such, I always have an on-board flash modifier with me on shoots even in situations where no flash situations are anticipated.

It will have to be an extremely impressive new feature to supplant the on-board flash option. The GPS rationale doesn't cut it for me. Perhaps the K-3ii will simply prove to be a stripped down version of the K-3?
A very rational and reasonable response. Thanks.


Yes, everyone has their own preference for whether or not they want a flash or GPS inside the pyramid. The thing that irks me is when people mistake their own personal preferences for actual knowledge of the market and presume that if a camera is not specified for their needs then it will most surely fail.

04-22-2015, 05:32 PM   #725
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
My point was that whoever added flash to high-end cameras (was it the same Canon crew that gave us the awful black "stealth" cameras?) may have just done it as a marketing move.
IIRC it was the Pentax SF-1
04-22-2015, 05:47 PM - 1 Like   #726
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So here is another thought on the loss of the onboard flash:
If you want both GPS/Astrotracer and flash how do you do that?
  • Flash on board and GPS external? Nope, won't work, the flash will not popup with the O-GPS unit on and no external flash can be attached.
  • GPS on board and flash on board? Might be the best solution but maybe there is no room for both. And the popup flash does not play well with larger lenses.
  • GPS on board and flash external? Yep, that works.
I can understand the lamenting from those that used the on board flash. No one wants to see something they used go away. For me, I've taken over 20,000 images in the last two years and have not used the popup flash once. However, I do geotag every shot that is taken outside of the studio. But if I wanted to geotag and use a flash I could not do that. Now you can.

If you look at it from the standpoint of engineers saying "how can we accomplish this" then the loss of the onboard flash is the only way to go. I know that does not help those that are upset by its loss but perhaps following the logic it at least makes sense.

The loss of the onboard flash for slave triggering is another matter. I don't use that as I use radio triggers but for those that do use that feature what do they do now? I'm very much hoping that radio control for flash is also built in. Seems unlikely since the specs are now published, mostly, but that would make a lot of sense if there is not going to be an onboard flash controller any more.
04-22-2015, 06:21 PM   #727
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
IIRC it was the Pentax SF-1
What a brick that is.
04-22-2015, 06:26 PM   #728
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I hope they implement an enhanced sensor shift mode that takes away one of my chins, reduces my belly and finally, puts some of my chest hair onto my scalp. I'd pay more for that enhanced firmware!

04-22-2015, 06:30 PM   #729
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
  • GPS on board and flash on board? Might be the best solution but maybe there is no room for both. And the popup flash does not play well with larger lenses..
Of course there should be room for both. Other camera makers accompished this as well, or haven't they?

Therefore, for now I only can imagine a business motivation for dropping the internal flash, which is to generate additional revenue by motivating purchases for external flash units.
04-22-2015, 06:40 PM   #730
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Of course there should be room for both. Other camera makers accompished this as well, or haven't they?

Therefore, for now I only can imagine a business motivation for dropping the internal flash, which is to generate additional revenue by motivating purchases for external flash units.
I can only imagine that most folks who would buy a K3 II already own an external flash. I think we have to take it that there wasn't space for both in the K3 body and Pentax wasn't ready to change the body. It was whatever they could shoe horn into it.
04-22-2015, 06:57 PM   #731
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Of course there should be room for both. Other camera makers accompished this as well, or haven't they? Therefore, for now I only can imagine a business motivation for dropping the internal flash, which is to generate additional revenue by motivating purchases for external flash units.
I would not know, have they? And put it in a body the size of a k-3? Help me out with a model number.

Please re-read my post, obviously you missed my point.
04-22-2015, 07:26 PM   #732
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I would not know, have they? And put it in a body the size of a k-3? Help me out with a model number.

Please re-read my post, obviously you missed my point.
I think the astro tracer is more than just a simple GPS unit. I don't know if it takes up much more space, but the external unit isn't exactly tiny.
04-22-2015, 07:29 PM   #733
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Just coming into my mind: Having both flash and GPS would have been possible, BUT it could have required changes of how technology is laid out within the body. Which could have required undesired re-design effort. Whereas sacrifying the flash was a quick and effortless shortcut to gain room, w/o redesigning anything else inside the camera.

I don't think it's that the body volume would have been too small in general. GPS units are tiny, and smartphones demonstrate their accommodation even though they have much less space allowances inside. If Ricoh had designed a new body, they could have accommodated the GPS somewhere else easily.

Astrotracing is just software.
04-22-2015, 07:31 PM - 1 Like   #734
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Fair point. Having both flash and GPS would have been possible, but it could have required changes of how technology is laid out within the body. Which could have required undesired re-design effort. Whereas sacrifying the flash was a quick and effortless shortcut to gain room, w/o redesigning anything else inside the camera.

I don't think it's that the body volume would have been too small in general. GPS units are tiny, and smartphones demonstrate their accommodation even though the have much less space allowances inside. If Ricoh had designed a new Body, they could have accommodated the GPS somewhere else.
Obviously you should hire on with Ricoh-Pentax.
They obviously need your engineering expertise.
04-22-2015, 07:46 PM   #735
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
Just coming into my mind: Having both flash and GPS would have been possible, BUT it could have required changes of how technology is laid out within the body. Which could have required undesired re-design effort. Whereas sacrifying the flash was a quick and effortless shortcut to gain room, w/o redesigning anything else inside the camera.

I don't think it's that the body volume would have been too small in general. GPS units are tiny, and smartphones demonstrate their accommodation even though they have much less space allowances inside. If Ricoh had designed a new body, they could have accommodated the GPS somewhere else easily.

Astrotracing is just software.
You may have a point, as I suspect that traditional camera makers (Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Leica) are a step behind companies like Sony and Samsung when it comes to incorporating SOCs (System On a Chip) into their products. For example, I've got a Sony Smartwatch 3 on my wrist. It's got a GPS, NFC, accelerometer, gyroscope, magnetometer, and compass in a package about the size of a pack of matches. Take away the display and the battery, and I bet the SOC that contains all of this stuff (a Qualcomm IIRC) is about the size of an SD card. But fitting that into current bodies AND integrating it into the camera electronics is likely a decent engineering effort that was understandably not explored for the incremental K-3ii.


But I'd love to see some of this stuff in the FF...

Last edited by johnmflores; 04-22-2015 at 07:57 PM.
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