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04-23-2015, 03:11 AM   #751
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
You are fine to want an on board flash. What I (and other posters) are trying to do is guess why Pentax decided to leave it off and think about whether or not the absence of said flash will be a detriment to sales.

My guess (as I said before) is that they had to choose between the pop up flash and putting the GPS unit in and they decided to put the GPS unit in as more of a stand out item. Not for the GPS tagging aspect, but for the astro tracing function, which is one of those things that just sounds really cool in reviews.

On the other hand, my guess is that while people may grumble about the absence of the pop up flash, few people will actually hinge their purchase purely on the presence/absence of the in camera flash. It is purely a guess and we will see. But the camera itself otherwise looks very nice and the launch price looks pretty sweet to me, as well.


We will see and your are correct, the price is fine but a new user would have to understand that if he needs to get a flash, or flu card, that will increase the price by a few hundred $'s so the price is a little misleading. I am sure they will bundle at least a flash somehow..


Adam added a poll so it will be interesting to see the results. Not scientific of course but we went through this same discussion a few weeks back as to how important a FF on board is to the user.


Of course, I think this subject will always polarize one or the other and that is fine. We all have different needs for our camera. GPS is great but I would never use it, maybe someday and it is nice to have it in case I want to use it. I wonder how many people would actually use it, but I would never tell anyone to take it away. Maybe another poll. :P

04-23-2015, 03:13 AM   #752
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
That's good. One of the things they should definitely enable via firmware is user selectable SDM or screwdrive on those lenses that have both.

By the way Ken, I hear you shoot gigs and concerts, right? Should you want to come to this major rock festival, Provinssi, in Finland next June, you can count on free accommodation My parents live within walking/biking distance and they vacate their flat during the festival. I go to this festival, it's a yearly pilgrimage

Here is the festival home page:
Provinssi 2015 | 24.-27.6.2015 Seinäjoella

It's been held yearly since 1979 and is definitely one of the best and most prestigious rock festivals here.
Yes, i shoot for Metal Hammer. Mostly concerts, but also portraits and article pics etc. I wish i could go this year i see by the lineup..haha! But can't! But i would love to come next year. Let us keep in touch on that matter
04-23-2015, 03:51 AM   #753
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Personally I'm a little bit disappointed that the features of the new mid range camera KS-2 (articulated screen and nfc/wifi) haven't made it into the top of the range refresh. I'm sure Pentax didn't want to devote a whole lot of engineering time to the K3-II while working on the FF.
What we have here seems to be the body that Pentax has been using to prototype new features going into the FF. The pentaprism hump on this camera matches what we've seen on the FF mockup.
It seems like a lost opportunity but if you're a K5 owner, this is a nice jump. As a K3 owner, I'm not sure I'd notice a whole lot with the same 8.3 fps and super resolution only available for landscape/tripod work. I'm losing a flash that I rarely/never use for a GPS receiver that I'll probably never use either.

Once feature that no one ever mentions, but would be a bit of a game changer, would be to integrate a flash radio trigger in the body. Put in Pentax specific PTTL remote flash triggering via a built in radio and sell a hotshoe stand with a built in receiver for the existing flashes. Or maybe emulate/support the most popular transmitters like Pocketwizard, Cactus and Elinchrom inside the camera and offer a camera bundle with some matching receivers. The functionality in the body could be enabled by buying a code unique to your camera's serial no. and out of the box, you could trigger studio flashes. My Elinchrom studio lights have built in receivers and it's so handy. When you have to set up a white screen, lights, a tripod etc, every step that you eliminate makes the camera desirable for mobile photographers. The people who spend their days going out to schools taking group photos or baby shots for a living.
04-23-2015, 03:52 AM   #754
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Yes, i shoot for Metal Hammer. Mostly concerts, but also portraits and article pics etc. I wish i could go this year i see by the lineup..haha! But can't! But i would love to come next year. Let us keep in touch on that matter
Sure thing, a new chance next year!

04-23-2015, 06:41 AM   #755
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
That's good. One of the things they should definitely enable via firmware is user selectable SDM or screwdrive on those lenses that have both.

By the way Ken, I hear you shoot gigs and concerts, right? Should you want to come to this major rock festival, Provinssi, in Finland next June, you can count on free accommodation My parents live within walking/biking distance and they vacate their flat during the festival. I go to this festival, it's a yearly pilgrimage

Here is the festival home page:
Provinssi 2015 | 24.-27.6.2015 Seinäjoella

It's been held yearly since 1979 and is definitely one of the best and most prestigious rock festivals here.
I hear ABBA is making a comeback ?
(Sorry ... couldn't resist!)
04-23-2015, 06:51 AM   #756
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QuoteOriginally posted by CptDibble Quote
Personally I'm a little bit disappointed that the features of the new mid range camera KS-2 (articulated screen and nfc/wifi) haven't made it into the top of the range refresh. I'm sure Pentax didn't want to devote a whole lot of engineering time to the K3-II while working on the FF.
What we have here seems to be the body that Pentax has been using to prototype new features going into the FF. The pentaprism hump on this camera matches what we've seen on the FF mockup.
It seems like a lost opportunity but if you're a K5 owner, this is a nice jump. As a K3 owner, I'm not sure I'd notice a whole lot with the same 8.3 fps and super resolution only available for landscape/tripod work. I'm losing a flash that I rarely/never use for a GPS receiver that I'll probably never use either.
Apparently I am unusual around here. I see two markets for APS-C cameras - "enthusiast" (like me) and "pro", and I see certain features as being more appropriate for one than for the other. The main distinguishing feature is the amount of money available. For example, I have never spent more than $700 on a camera (that was 20 years ago, so because of inflation, I should be willing to spend more than that now). Thus, although I might be very interested, you won't see me buying $2300 lenses (in fact, my rule of thumb is that I seldom buy a lens that costs more than my camera). The relevance here is that I also see certain features as fitting each market. In particular, I have always viewed the built-in flash and flippy screen as fitting into the "E" market, so I wasn't surprised to see both excluded from this camera. I also expect a "P" camera to be black, so you can recognize a pro when you see one (which is why I think an other-colored camera can cause people to ignore me when I'm trying to take discreet pictures). I was surprised to see WiFi lacking - as I indicated on an earlier comment, I'm guessing that their engineering team had their hands full, and there is only so much room inside a camera body. Yes, modern electronics seem to be small, but they add up over time, and they have to be arranged to they (including antennae) don't interfere with each other. I am certain there was also someone whose job was to watch heat build-up and someone else who was watching power usage.

QuoteOriginally posted by CptDibble Quote
Once feature that no one ever mentions, but would be a bit of a game changer, would be to integrate a flash radio trigger in the body. Put in Pentax specific PTTL remote flash triggering via a built in radio and sell a hotshoe stand with a built in receiver for the existing flashes. Or maybe emulate/support the most popular transmitters like Pocketwizard, Cactus and Elinchrom inside the camera and offer a camera bundle with some matching receivers. The functionality in the body could be enabled by buying a code unique to your camera's serial no. and out of the box, you could trigger studio flashes. My Elinchrom studio lights have built in receivers and it's so handy. When you have to set up a white screen, lights, a tripod etc, every step that you eliminate makes the camera desirable for mobile photographers. The people who spend their days going out to schools taking group photos or baby shots for a living.
I'm sorry - I tried to mention RF every time someone else mentioned flash. If I understand correctly, Canon has their own RF protocol, and their newest cameras can all be a master for that, apart from the built-in flash; that is why I was surprised at the Pentax users who depend on the tiny point-source flash to trigger optically-aware flashes. Yes, Pentax should either develop their own system or (because of their size) license one from someone else, and then stuff that inside the camera shell also.
04-23-2015, 07:09 AM   #757
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Apparently I am unusual around here. I see two markets for APS-C cameras - "enthusiast" (like me) and "pro", and I see certain features as being more appropriate for one than for the other. The main distinguishing feature is the amount of money available. For example, I have never spent more than $700 on a camera (that was 20 years ago, so because of inflation, I should be willing to spend more than that now). Thus, although I might be very interested, you won't see me buying $2300 lenses (in fact, my rule of thumb is that I seldom buy a lens that costs more than my camera). The relevance here is that I also see certain features as fitting each market. In particular, I have always viewed the built-in flash and flippy screen as fitting into the "E" market, so I wasn't surprised to see both excluded from this camera. I also expect a "P" camera to be black, so you can recognize a pro when you see one (which is why I think an other-colored camera can cause people to ignore me when I'm trying to take discreet pictures). I was surprised to see WiFi lacking - as I indicated on an earlier comment, I'm guessing that their engineering team had their hands full, and there is only so much room inside a camera body. Yes, modern electronics seem to be small, but they add up over time, and they have to be arranged to they (including antennae) don't interfere with each other. I am certain there was also someone whose job was to watch heat build-up and someone else who was watching power usage.

I'm sorry - I tried to mention RF every time someone else mentioned flash. If I understand correctly, Canon has their own RF protocol, and their newest cameras can all be a master for that, apart from the built-in flash; that is why I was surprised at the Pentax users who depend on the tiny point-source flash to trigger optically-aware flashes. Yes, Pentax should either develop their own system or (because of their size) license one from someone else, and then stuff that inside the camera shell also.

Indeed. The lack of flash makes no difference for me; I either have a unit installed or remotely with some wireless connection.

I think we will see more differentiation like this.
04-23-2015, 07:10 AM   #758
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There's a K-S2 for that.

04-23-2015, 07:22 AM   #759
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K3II developed with or without Olympus?

Last edited by Parallax; 04-23-2015 at 07:45 AM.
04-23-2015, 07:24 AM   #760
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Apparently I am unusual around here. I see two markets for APS-C cameras - "enthusiast" (like me) and "pro", and I see certain features as being more appropriate for one than for the other... The relevance here is that I also see certain features as fitting each market. In particular, I have always viewed the built-in flash and flippy screen as fitting into the "E" market, so I wasn't surprised to see both excluded from this camera. I also expect a "P" camera to be black, so you can recognize a pro when you see one (which is why I think an other-colored camera can cause people to ignore me when I'm trying to take discreet pictures)
QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Indeed. The lack of flash makes no difference for me; I either have a unit installed or remotely with some wireless connection.
I think we will see more differentiation like this.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
There's a K-S2 for that.
Yes, that is part of what I was trying to say.
04-23-2015, 07:27 AM - 2 Likes   #761
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Well, at least Pentax solved the problem of the flash sync speed of only being 1/180. It is now 0.
04-23-2015, 07:31 AM - 2 Likes   #762
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
Well, at least Pentax solved the problem of increasing the flash sync speed of only being 1/180. It is now 0.
Nonsense. Flash sync is still 1/180 whether it is is built in or external.

Sorry Jim, but this is getting really old. You have made your point. Again. And again. And again.

Move on.
04-23-2015, 07:34 AM   #763
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Yes, that is part of what I was trying to say.


Yes, if Pentax does have a FW upgrade for pixel shifting for the K-S2, it will be interesting to see which camera sells the most. In some ways, the flagship may be more the S2 than the 3II but there are other improvements on the 3II. but not by much.
04-23-2015, 07:35 AM   #764
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimC1101 Quote
Well, at least Pentax solved the problem of the flash sync speed of only being 1/180. It is now 0.

Last edited by Parallax; 04-23-2015 at 07:41 AM.
04-23-2015, 07:37 AM   #765
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