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04-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #541
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
first world problems
Cant please'em all

04-23-2015, 02:19 PM   #542
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
A K-3 II body which retained the popup flash AND added internal GPS, WiFi and NFC, would probably not have presented Ricoh with an impossible engineering challenge, and only cost them a few extra bucks.

If I was them, I would have done it, even if it meant adding $100 to the launch price.

That way buyers [and sellers] could easily focus on the other attractive features of the camera, without having to deal with the pros and cons of added/subtracted features, especially when check-listing the camera relative to competitors.
I guess. I just really think one of two things happened: either (a) they just couldn't fit all those things in without changing body style (not an option) and decided that they had wi fi covered with the flu card and that they would rather have the GPS than a pop up flash or, (b) they had a specific price point they were shooting for (100 dollars less than the D7200) and they wouldn't go over it, even if it meant leaving off the pop up flash.

My guess is that (a) was the scenario, but it certainly could have been (b).
04-23-2015, 02:20 PM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
We have the K-S2 for that.
No LCD on top, not interested.

Anyway it is a smaller problem for me, if there is no flash so be it.

As for space... there are photos of cutaway K-5s, and I think also of a see through K-3? At least in the K-5 there is space. I suspect they just fitted in the complete OGPS-1 (?) in there, apart from the battery. And for THAT module they needed the extra space. They could have gone for a smaller unit, but that is additional work, and I suspect they are busy enough with the K-FF and were just looking for a way to refresh the K-3 without too much effort.
04-23-2015, 02:21 PM - 2 Likes   #544
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FWIW, the move away from an on-camera flash indicates, I think, an increased interest in picking up professional photographers. When was the last time you saw a professional photographer use an on-body pop-up flash? Never to almost never. Most of the time professionals aren't even mounting flash units on top of a camera unless it's to bounce it.



04-23-2015, 02:21 PM   #545
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QuoteOriginally posted by geomez Quote
APSC mirrorless: no built-in flash. Nobody cares. Sells like crazy.
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
K-01 has popup flash
And it sure didn't sell like crazy. Clearly, the popup flash is what killed the K-01.
04-23-2015, 02:22 PM   #546
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve.Ledger Quote
K-01 has popup flash
Damn!

Panoguy just told me that's where they hid the viewfinder.
04-23-2015, 02:23 PM - 1 Like   #547
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Keep in mind that especially beginners want to have everything covered in the camera.
You're right, but this isn't a beginner camera and won't be marketed as such. If anything, to me, leaving the flash out further elevates it from beginner cameras. Marketing approach something like:
I don't know anything about photography and don't want to: P&S or cell phone
I want to take better pictures but don't want to have to put much effort into it: Bridge camera
I want to learn a bit about actual photography: Entry level interchangeable lens DSLR K30, K50, etc
I know what I'm doing and I don't need gimmicks*, I need useful features: K-3ii, FF, MF.


* (yes, though admittedly I use mine occasionally, I class the internal flash a gimmick)
04-23-2015, 02:24 PM   #548
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Well then there are two possibilities:
  1. They are benighted idiots and we should all exit the brand posthaste
  2. They know something we don't know and did what they did with a purpose in mind.
It's only the second item, of course. No doubt they do have a purpose, albeit a mysterious one.

04-23-2015, 02:30 PM   #549
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
FWIW, the move away from an on-camera flash indicates, I think, an increased interest in picking up professional photographers.
Regardless of this or not, i have been saying all the time, that they want more pros to switch. That is also why i am 100% sponsored too, and why they signed me from Nikon

*Edit: That is also one big reason for the FF to come.

Last edited by kenspo; 04-23-2015 at 02:36 PM.
04-23-2015, 02:34 PM   #550
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A question for Kenspo about Pixel Shift technologie.
Ricoh says that the final picture will be get by iternal processing or using the program that will come with the K-3 II. But what will it be? DNG? TIFF?
I ask bcause I own a Sigma DP3 and DP2 which product pictures with R G and B value for each pixel like the ones the K-3 II will produce. And Sigma never come with a solution to produce a DNG file for such pictures... They had their X3F file or the JPG option, plus TIFF option in their program. And Adobe never helped them to make Lighroom or Photoshop opening their files..
So you see what I point out: Will we have to change our workflow for Pixel Shift pictures?
Thanks!
04-23-2015, 02:36 PM   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
And the easiest way to understand the size is to look at the OGPS-1. Yeah, Pentax probably could have gotten a smaller GPS unit inside the k-3 and fit the flash, but then to guarantee it works with the astrotracer software?
That kinda makes sense.

OGPS-1 is a pretty big bit of hardware. Cramming it into a K-3 body means something had to give.
04-23-2015, 02:39 PM   #552
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QuoteOriginally posted by Black_Wizards Quote
A question for Kenspo about Pixel Shift technologie.
Ricoh says that the final picture will be get by iternal processing or using the program that will come with the K-3 II. But what will it be? DNG? TIFF?
I ask bcause I own a Sigma DP3 and DP2 which product pictures with R G and B value for each pixel like the ones the K-3 II will produce. And Sigma never come with a solution to produce a DNG file for such pictures... They had their X3F file or the JPG option, plus TIFF option in their program. And Adobe never helped them to make Lighroom or Photoshop opening their files..
So you see what I point out: Will we have to change our workflow for Pixel Shift pictures?
Thanks!
I can't say 100% shure, since i haven't tested it or asked them about this specific yet. But I'm shure they mentioned DNG. Will check more correctly when i get the chance!
04-23-2015, 02:42 PM   #553
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
You're right, but this isn't a beginner camera and won't be marketed as such. If anything, to me, leaving the flash out further elevates it from beginner cameras. Marketing approach something like:
I don't know anything about photography and don't want to: P&S or cell phone
I want to take better pictures but don't want to have to put much effort into it: Bridge camera
I want to learn a bit about actual photography: Entry level interchangeable lens DSLR K30, K50, etc
I know what I'm doing and I don't need gimmicks*, I need useful features: K-3ii, FF, MF.


* (yes, though admittedly I use mine occasionally, I class the internal flash a gimmick)
Fair enough. I see it that way too. Though a gimmick that can be useful at times. Usually when I set it to the green mode and hand the camera to someone else so we get a group shot.

Thing is the K-3 is compact enough to be the only camera for a professional photographer (maybe with a backup K-5 for example). Use it for work, but also for leisure, those occasions where you want to travel light, without additional lighting gear, say you go to a pub with friends and then may want to take a group shot. No one in their right mind would bring a 5D or 1D for that purpose, but a K-3? I have my K-5 with me pretty much wherever I go, sometimes even when I go shopping groceries.

Sadly it feels like the video functionality of their single digit cameras is meant for beginners... not too many options (IIRC no different quality levels?), keep it as simple as possible, when it should be the "I know what I'm doing" category.

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the K-3 II successor has a flash again, as they have found a way to fit the GPS module, WiFi and NFC into a body that was designed for those features in the first place. Or if they finally drop the flash, do it for an OVF/EVF hybrid viewfinder.
04-23-2015, 02:45 PM   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
OGPS-1 is a pretty big bit of hardware. Cramming it into a K-3 body means something had to give.
Somebody on the dutch forum opened it up: Pentax O-GPS1 inkijkje.
04-23-2015, 02:48 PM   #555
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I can't say 100% shure, since i haven't tested it or asked them about this specific yet. But I'm shure they mentioned DNG. Will check more correctly when i get the chance!
Ok thanks.
Because we literally use Lightroom and other program for "demosaicing" a DNG file which means "interpolate" existing informations to create the one missing in the file since we don't have all the R G B vlaue in a normal DNG file. So, with a file containing ever value, there is no point in demosaicing it so program like Lighroom are useless and that explain why Sigma never find a solution for their file but only their own program... So yes I'm very curious to see how Ricoh succeed where Sigma fails...
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