Specs of K-3II

JinDesu · 04-23-2015, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

Somebody on the dutch forum opened it up: Pentax O-GPS1 inkijkje.

Those two large processors are probably the crux of the space taken inside the flash housing. You can manipulate the board to reroute the pathing, but unless they replace those two pieces they aren't going to make it much smaller.

kenspo · 04-23-2015, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by Black_Wizards

Ok thanks.
Because we literally use Lightroom and other program for "demosaicing" a DNG file which means "interpolate" existing informations to create the one missing in the file since we don't have all the R G B vlaue in a normal DNG file. So, with a file containing ever value, there is no point in demosaicing it so program like Lighroom are useless and that explain why Sigma never find a solution for their file but only their own program... So yes I'm very curious to see how Ricoh succeed where Sigma fails...

I can't answer those questions, since i have 0 experience with this

But will pass on any questions to Ricoh!

jaad75 · 04-23-2015, 03:09 PM

AFAIR, Lr opens Olympus HiRes files...

Glorfindelrb · 04-23-2015, 03:24 PM

Do we know if the hiRes mode can produce a single DNG file ?

Black_Wizards · 04-23-2015, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

AFAIR, Lr opens Olympus HiRes files...

I thought it was possible in PS with a special plug in only...

jaad75 · 04-23-2015, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Black_Wizards

I thought it was possible in PS with a special plug in only...

I've read somewhere it works with Lr 5.7 and 6/CC...

Na Horuk · 04-23-2015, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by JinDesu

Those two large processors are probably the crux of the space taken inside the flash housing. You can manipulate the board to reroute the pathing, but unless they replace those two pieces they aren't going to make it much smaller.

Maybe they can optimize processors, so instead of using one for GPS and one for camera, they can use one for both. And antennas or whatnot can be expanded over the whole camera body as well. I think built in GPS should be more effective. But it will be a drawback for those who don't want GPS or don't use it, because they will be paying for it anyway. Same logic goes for Wifi. Pentax just decided that this camera will be for people who want those solutions. If people want a flash instead of GPS and Wifi, buy one of the other Pentax cameras that has those features.

Black_Wizards · 04-23-2015, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by jaad75

I've read somewhere it works with Lr 5.7 and 6/CC...

It would be great. But what makes me doubt for Pentax is that they shift one pixel to have RGB value for every pixel. Olympus move HALF a pixel so you really increase the number of effective pixel so they need a demosaicing after all... unlike Pentax files. But Sigma files (same tech as Pentax) have never had any solutio (at least from Adabe which is the leader is RAW demosaicing)

**geomez** · 04-23-2015, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by THoog

And it sure didn't sell like crazy. Clearly, the popup flash is what killed the K-01.

Correction...

Sony and Fuji APSC mirrorless: Sells like crazy.
Pentax APSC mirrorless: Sells like crazy after fire sale.

bobell69 · 04-23-2015, 03:59 PM

I rarely have used the onboard flash. When I need a flash I either install one in the camera or I use triggers snd off camera flash.

Steve.Ledger · 04-23-2015, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the K-3 II successor has a flash again, as they have found a way to fit the GPS module, WiFi and NFC into a body that was designed for those features in the first place.

Which DSLR model has GPS/WiFi/NFC ?

kadajawi · 04-23-2015, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Black_Wizards

Ok thanks.
Because we literally use Lightroom and other program for "demosaicing" a DNG file which means "interpolate" existing informations to create the one missing in the file since we don't have all the R G B vlaue in a normal DNG file. So, with a file containing ever value, there is no point in demosaicing it so program like Lighroom are useless and that explain why Sigma never find a solution for their file but only their own program... So yes I'm very curious to see how Ricoh succeed where Sigma fails...

Could be more of a "can't be bothered" thing rather than not being able to do it. It costs Adobe time and money to figure out the Sigma files, and who owns a Sigma camera?! Of course this is going to be a bit of an issue for Pentax too, cause the number of cameras that can produce these files isn't going to be small.

Raw files are IIRC usually greyscale TIFF images, and Lightroom knows which pixel should have which color and then interpolates what pixel should have what color. DNG files are basically such greyscale TIFF files in a certain container (defined by Adobe) and compressed with a certain compression algorithm (actually only the decoding is defined I'd guess, how you implement the encoder is up to Pentax, Adobe, ... that's why a DNG file from a K-5 can be compressed lossless in Lightroom and ends up smaller). DNG AFAIK does support full color TIFF data that doesn't have to be demosaiced, it will be bigger (obviously), but that's it. Hopefully it's not hard to implement for Pentax, they would just have to add up the 4 photos taken... I think? Then pack that in a DNG container and Lightroom hopefully reads it. I'd be surprised if Pentax didn't do that.

You can look at the K-30 and K-5 internals here:
Pentax K-30 vs K-5 IIs Cross Sections - Photokina 2012 | PentaxForums.com

I suppose the K-3 will be similar to the K-5...? The chips in the OGPS-1 might fit in there...? With some effort? But the problem is that part of the body is metal... not good for the antenna. Maybe if they had placed the antenna in an extended flash enclosure made out of plastic? If Pentax were to design a camera with GPS from the ground up I would expect them to be able to fit GPS _and_ a flash. But this is different. And maybe they are also hoping to see how people will react to the loss of a flash... if the reaction isn't too bad, maybe they have other plans for that space (Hybrid viewfinder? Please Pentax?). Otherwise, this is just a temporary filler, and the successor will have a flash.

---------- Post added 24-04-15 at 01:45 ----------

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Which DSLR model has GPS/WiFi/NFC ?

NFC doesn't have to be at the top of the camera, it can be placed like in the K-S2. And the D5300 has GPS and WiFi. Yes, no metal body, but with a new body Pentax might have a part of it (near the hotshoe?) made from plastic, so they can fit antennas there? I'm not an electrical engineer (though I was heading in that direction, once... but didn't get too far... all that math...). Not being able to change anything apart from the flash housing itself must have limited them quite a bit.

rawr · 04-23-2015, 05:08 PM

For info, in comparing the K-3 and the K3 II body, it seems they only made a few minor alterations (circled in red) to the metalware of the new camera.

And the changes required some modification to the WR sealing too:

Steve.Ledger · 04-23-2015, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by kadajawi

NFC doesn't have to be at the top of the camera, it can be placed like in the K-S2. And the D5300 has GPS and WiFi..

Sorry, you implied Pentax had already included all three with another camera. I'm not interested in what Nikon does, their body engineering isn't in question.

kadajawi · 04-23-2015, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Steve.Ledger

Sorry, you implied Pentax had already included all three with another camera. I'm not interested in what Nikon does, their body engineering isn't in question.

Ah, sorry. No, I meant that when they design the K-3 II successor, and they decide to give it a new body, then they may be able to fit all these things into a body that has a flash.

@rawr: Interesting that they did change the metal parts...

04-23-2015, 05:08 PM	#568
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	For info, in comparing the K-3 and the K3 II body, it seems they only made a few minor alterations (circled in red) to the metalware of the new camera. And the changes required some modification to the WR sealing too: Last edited by rawr; 04-23-2015 at 05:18 PM.

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04-23-2015, 02:55 PM	#556
JinDesu Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New York City Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,638	Originally posted by D1N0 Somebody on the dutch forum opened it up: Pentax O-GPS1 inkijkje. Those two large processors are probably the crux of the space taken inside the flash housing. You can manipulate the board to reroute the pathing, but unless they replace those two pieces they aren't going to make it much smaller.

04-23-2015, 03:06 PM	#557
kenspo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Oslo Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by Black_Wizards Ok thanks. Because we literally use Lightroom and other program for "demosaicing" a DNG file which means "interpolate" existing informations to create the one missing in the file since we don't have all the R G B vlaue in a normal DNG file. So, with a file containing ever value, there is no point in demosaicing it so program like Lighroom are useless and that explain why Sigma never find a solution for their file but only their own program... So yes I'm very curious to see how Ricoh succeed where Sigma fails... I can't answer those questions, since i have 0 experience with this But will pass on any questions to Ricoh!

04-23-2015, 03:09 PM	#558
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	AFAIR, Lr opens Olympus HiRes files...

04-23-2015, 03:24 PM	#559
Glorfindelrb Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 364	Do we know if the hiRes mode can produce a single DNG file ?

04-23-2015, 03:30 PM	#560
Black_Wizards Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 118	Originally posted by jaad75 AFAIR, Lr opens Olympus HiRes files... I thought it was possible in PS with a special plug in only...

04-23-2015, 03:35 PM	#561
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by Black_Wizards I thought it was possible in PS with a special plug in only... I've read somewhere it works with Lr 5.7 and 6/CC...

04-23-2015, 03:35 PM	#562
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by JinDesu Those two large processors are probably the crux of the space taken inside the flash housing. You can manipulate the board to reroute the pathing, but unless they replace those two pieces they aren't going to make it much smaller. Maybe they can optimize processors, so instead of using one for GPS and one for camera, they can use one for both. And antennas or whatnot can be expanded over the whole camera body as well. I think built in GPS should be more effective. But it will be a drawback for those who don't want GPS or don't use it, because they will be paying for it anyway. Same logic goes for Wifi. Pentax just decided that this camera will be for people who want those solutions. If people want a flash instead of GPS and Wifi, buy one of the other Pentax cameras that has those features.

04-23-2015, 03:42 PM	#563
Black_Wizards Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 118	Originally posted by jaad75 I've read somewhere it works with Lr 5.7 and 6/CC... It would be great. But what makes me doubt for Pentax is that they shift one pixel to have RGB value for every pixel. Olympus move HALF a pixel so you really increase the number of effective pixel so they need a demosaicing after all... unlike Pentax files. But Sigma files (same tech as Pentax) have never had any solutio (at least from Adabe which is the leader is RAW demosaicing)

04-23-2015, 03:55 PM	#564
geomez Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Roanoke, Virginia, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,760	Originally posted by THoog And it sure didn't sell like crazy. Clearly, the popup flash is what killed the K-01. Correction... Sony and Fuji APSC mirrorless: Sells like crazy. Pentax APSC mirrorless: Sells like crazy after fire sale.

04-23-2015, 03:59 PM	#565
bobell69 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Courtenay BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 498	I rarely have used the onboard flash. When I need a flash I either install one in the camera or I use triggers snd off camera flash.

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04-23-2015, 04:28 PM	#566
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by kadajawi To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the K-3 II successor has a flash again, as they have found a way to fit the GPS module, WiFi and NFC into a body that was designed for those features in the first place. Which DSLR model has GPS/WiFi/NFC ?

04-23-2015, 04:32 PM	#567
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Black_Wizards Ok thanks. Because we literally use Lightroom and other program for "demosaicing" a DNG file which means "interpolate" existing informations to create the one missing in the file since we don't have all the R G B vlaue in a normal DNG file. So, with a file containing ever value, there is no point in demosaicing it so program like Lighroom are useless and that explain why Sigma never find a solution for their file but only their own program... So yes I'm very curious to see how Ricoh succeed where Sigma fails... Could be more of a "can't be bothered" thing rather than not being able to do it. It costs Adobe time and money to figure out the Sigma files, and who owns a Sigma camera?! Of course this is going to be a bit of an issue for Pentax too, cause the number of cameras that can produce these files isn't going to be small. Raw files are IIRC usually greyscale TIFF images, and Lightroom knows which pixel should have which color and then interpolates what pixel should have what color. DNG files are basically such greyscale TIFF files in a certain container (defined by Adobe) and compressed with a certain compression algorithm (actually only the decoding is defined I'd guess, how you implement the encoder is up to Pentax, Adobe, ... that's why a DNG file from a K-5 can be compressed lossless in Lightroom and ends up smaller). DNG AFAIK does support full color TIFF data that doesn't have to be demosaiced, it will be bigger (obviously), but that's it. Hopefully it's not hard to implement for Pentax, they would just have to add up the 4 photos taken... I think? Then pack that in a DNG container and Lightroom hopefully reads it. I'd be surprised if Pentax didn't do that. You can look at the K-30 and K-5 internals here: Pentax K-30 vs K-5 IIs Cross Sections - Photokina 2012 \| PentaxForums.com I suppose the K-3 will be similar to the K-5...? The chips in the OGPS-1 might fit in there...? With some effort? But the problem is that part of the body is metal... not good for the antenna. Maybe if they had placed the antenna in an extended flash enclosure made out of plastic? If Pentax were to design a camera with GPS from the ground up I would expect them to be able to fit GPS _and_ a flash. But this is different. And maybe they are also hoping to see how people will react to the loss of a flash... if the reaction isn't too bad, maybe they have other plans for that space (Hybrid viewfinder? Please Pentax?). Otherwise, this is just a temporary filler, and the successor will have a flash. ---------- Post added 24-04-15 at 01:45 ---------- Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Which DSLR model has GPS/WiFi/NFC ? NFC doesn't have to be at the top of the camera, it can be placed like in the K-S2. And the D5300 has GPS and WiFi. Yes, no metal body, but with a new body Pentax might have a part of it (near the hotshoe?) made from plastic, so they can fit antennas there? I'm not an electrical engineer (though I was heading in that direction, once... but didn't get too far... all that math...). Not being able to change anything apart from the flash housing itself must have limited them quite a bit.

04-23-2015, 05:15 PM	#569
Steve.Ledger Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Far North Qld Posts: 3,301	Originally posted by kadajawi NFC doesn't have to be at the top of the camera, it can be placed like in the K-S2. And the D5300 has GPS and WiFi.. Sorry, you implied Pentax had already included all three with another camera. I'm not interested in what Nikon does, their body engineering isn't in question.

04-23-2015, 05:28 PM	#570
kadajawi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 2,799	Originally posted by Steve.Ledger Sorry, you implied Pentax had already included all three with another camera. I'm not interested in what Nikon does, their body engineering isn't in question. Ah, sorry. No, I meant that when they design the K-3 II successor, and they decide to give it a new body, then they may be able to fit all these things into a body that has a flash. @rawr: Interesting that they did change the metal parts...