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04-22-2015, 02:29 PM - 1 Like   #61
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I feel bad for Ricoh, they do so much for the Pentax brand, oblige the rabid fans who want their name removed from their cameras(notice the lack of Ricoh on the back of the K3ii) and still cannot make people warm up to them. What's a company gotta do to get some love.

04-22-2015, 02:33 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I doubt that a firmware upgrade will give the K-3 all sorts of new features... IMHO one shouldn't expect Pentax to add functionality after the release of the camera. They did that, occasionally, long time ago. But in recent years...
Ricoh has a history and culture of Firmware upgrades to their discontinued cameras until the hardware can no longer support the new features. They consider it a customer-binding strategy. We'll see whether they apply that philosophy to the Pentax brand - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did.
04-22-2015, 02:43 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
I feel bad for Ricoh, they do so much for the Pentax brand, oblige the rabid fans who want their name removed from their cameras(notice the lack of Ricoh on the back of the K3ii) and still cannot make people warm up to them. What's a company gotta do to get some love.
There are a couple of things users have been asking for for a while, and they have ignored them. Even things that could be done via a firmware update. I have discovered a bug that was in the K-5, managed to confirm it with my Pentax dealer that K-5s in general are affected, and that the K-3 is affected too. It is quite noticeable and irritating (the aperture of the DA 50mm 1.8 opens and closes while focusing manually while in video mode/recording a video), my dealer reported it to Pentax, and I posted it here and on the Ricoh US forum, no response. It's probably still there.

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh has a history and culture of Firmware upgrades to their discontinued cameras until the hardware can no longer support the new features. They consider it a customer-binding strategy. We'll see whether they apply that philosophy to the Pentax brand - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did.
I sure hope so. Other camera brands, especially coming from the consumer electronics field are much more dependable in this area. What Panasonic and Samsung has done is quite staggering, the way they upgrade their old cameras and listen to customer feedback.
04-22-2015, 02:45 PM - 2 Likes   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote

I sure hope so. Other camera brands, especially coming from the consumer electronics field are much more dependable in this area. What Panasonic and Samsung has done is quite staggering, the way they upgrade their old cameras and listen to customer feedback.
True, True, Panasonic and Samsung have indeed listened to their consumers...all 250 of them (drum roll)

04-22-2015, 05:52 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Other camera brands, especially coming from the consumer electronics field are much more dependable in this area. What Panasonic and Samsung has done is quite staggering, the way they upgrade their old cameras and listen to customer feedback.
But also Fujifilm (which is traditional camera business) is remarkable in transforming e.g. their X-T1 into a new camera regularly by means of camera software updates! OK that slightly exagerated, but the effort they put into incrementally adding features and extending functions is a blessing for their users. I get jealous when I talk to an X-T1 owner.

Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh never did that, with any of my Pentax bodys. Just bug fixing, and updating the lens database. Both of that only for the newer body models. That's it. They never added new or extended existing functions.

Don't know about Canon's and Nikon's attitude, never owned a CaNikon.

Last edited by Frater; 04-22-2015 at 06:03 PM.
04-22-2015, 07:59 PM   #66
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Maybe its because some companies release tested, finished products. Others have no other technology to advance their cameras, can continue on software development. The updates I see for the mirrorless set is pretty much just bringing the technology (which is new) to par in most ways.
04-22-2015, 09:55 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
It doesn't say Ricoh. Sure you'll buy one.

Not sure if the accelerometer is enough for panning detection. But even if it is, Pentax may just have thought "we know when the camera turns, thanks to the compass, so we can just say if it turns for more than 0.5 seconds it's not shake but panning".

I doubt that a firmware upgrade will give the K-3 all sorts of new features... IMHO one shouldn't expect Pentax to add functionality after the release of the camera. They did that, occasionally, long time ago. But in recent years...

This seems to be a nice upgrade to the K-3, though not big enough perhaps to convince K-3 users. More so K-5 users etc.?

The improved SR mechanism interests me...
I saw that there is no Ricoh on the back!!!
Ricoh, if you are listening, YES, I will have to buy one just because you listened to me (and others). Very nice.

---------- Post added 04-22-15 at 11:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
I feel bad for Ricoh, they do so much for the Pentax brand, oblige the rabid fans who want their name removed from their cameras(notice the lack of Ricoh on the back of the K3ii) and still cannot make people warm up to them. What's a company gotta do to get some love.
Since I am one of the rabid ones...I will probably buy one just because they did that!
(and of course the pixel shifting and GPS).

Also, probably because I have also almost worn out my K3-A.
K3-B and C are a little younger. A is getting close to retirement.

04-23-2015, 02:23 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by bibz Quote
Maybe its because some companies release tested, finished products. Others have no other technology to advance their cameras, can continue on software development. The updates I see for the mirrorless set is pretty much just bringing the technology (which is new) to par in most ways.
There are a couple of features I would have loved to see in my K-5, but that were never added. Like for example a bracketing mode where the sensor is shot in 4 different positions (as far apart as possible, for example). Should be easy enough to do in firmware, but no, never added. I'm not the only one who wanted it. Or to reprogram the RAW/Fx button as a start video recording button. Manual controls for video. Or the K-3... Pentax says, SR during video is too noisy, so we deactivated it. Users say: We don't care, we use an external microphone or just play some music in the background instead of original audio. Pentax sticks fingers into their ears and goes "lalalalalalala". They've kept getting user feedback on this since the K-01 and K-30, and so far Pentax did not listen. And we know they hear that people want SR. Maybe the K-30 II will get it, probably not.

Mirrorless cameras on par with DSLRs? The LOG picture styles recently added to Panasonic and Samsung cameras are rarely seen on DSLRs. Panasonic even added a 4:3 video recording mode, something you would usually have to buy an Arri Alexa for (and not any Alexa), those cameras are easily 5 to 6 digit cameras. The market for people who would want to do so is probably small (you need expensive anamorphic lenses), and it's not so trivial to implement, but they did it. Samsungs updates do look a bit like finalizing the cameras, adding features users ask for, and features that probably have been in development some time ago but just didn't make it (but even without the camera was more than competitive). At least the flagship cameras from Panasonic and Samsung are treated really well with updates, making more than capable and competitive cameras even better.

04-23-2015, 03:58 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Frater Quote
But also Fujifilm (which is traditional camera business) is remarkable in transforming e.g. their X-T1 into a new camera regularly by means of camera software updates! OK that slightly exagerated, but the effort they put into incrementally adding features and extending functions is a blessing for their users. I get jealous when I talk to an X-T1 owner.

Pentax/Hoya/Ricoh never did that, with any of my Pentax bodys. Just bug fixing, and updating the lens database. Both of that only for the newer body models. That's it. They never added new or extended existing functions.

Don't know about Canon's and Nikon's attitude, never owned a CaNikon.
Didn't the K-3 get diffraction correction added in firmware after launch? And I think there have been one or two other things as well. Not huge features, true, but nice to haves.
04-23-2015, 04:49 AM   #70
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If the K3 gets Pixel Shift through a firmware upgrade I will be very surprised. We don't even know if it actually is even possible yet ? That's the main reason I went "all in" on the K3II and have Pre-Ordered.
Could it happen down the road at some point ? I think so , but my gut feeling is it wont be until a new model that will replace both comes out near the end of the K3II's reign.
Pentax knows a lot of people are gonna jump ship with their K3 and upgrade to the K3II.
04-23-2015, 04:56 AM   #71
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I don't think Ricoh will provide their usp in this camera as a firmware upgrade. There may not even be enough room in the internal storage for the added code in the firmware, or the sr engine in the K-3 may not be up to it. People could always try to brick a K-3 by hacking a K-3II firmware into it though .
04-23-2015, 05:09 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I don't think Ricoh will provide their usp in this camera as a firmware upgrade. There may not even be enough room in the internal storage for the added code in the firmware, or the sr engine in the K-3 may not be up to it. People could always try to brick a K-3 by hacking a K-3II firmware into it though .
Indeed. However, I think both Kenspo and Asahiman have talked of upcoming firmware updates for the K-3. Whether these are going to add anything specific from the K-3II is unknown. Maybe the odd performance update.
04-23-2015, 08:27 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
There are a couple of features I would have loved to see in my K-5, but that were never added. Like for example a bracketing mode where the sensor is shot in 4 different positions (as far apart as possible, for example). Should be easy enough to do in firmware, but no, never added. I'm not the only one who wanted it. Or to reprogram the RAW/Fx button as a start video recording button. Manual controls for video. Or the K-3... Pentax says, SR during video is too noisy, so we deactivated it. Users say: We don't care, we use an external microphone or just play some music in the background instead of original audio. Pentax sticks fingers into their ears and goes "lalalalalalala". They've kept getting user feedback on this since the K-01 and K-30, and so far Pentax did not listen. And we know they hear that people want SR. Maybe the K-30 II will get it, probably not.

Mirrorless cameras on par with DSLRs? The LOG picture styles recently added to Panasonic and Samsung cameras are rarely seen on DSLRs. Panasonic even added a 4:3 video recording mode, something you would usually have to buy an Arri Alexa for (and not any Alexa), those cameras are easily 5 to 6 digit cameras. The market for people who would want to do so is probably small (you need expensive anamorphic lenses), and it's not so trivial to implement, but they did it. Samsungs updates do look a bit like finalizing the cameras, adding features users ask for, and features that probably have been in development some time ago but just didn't make it (but even without the camera was more than competitive). At least the flagship cameras from Panasonic and Samsung are treated really well with updates, making more than capable and competitive cameras even better.
It's pretty clear that video isn't a big focus in these products. It's not the intended market. 'Easy' firmware updates for odd requests still take many many man hours. If you think any idea you have isn't thought by people working full busy japanese work weeks on these things youre crazy. Video SR would have been considered and attempted. Obviously not ready to market. Panasonic and samsung are those companies that make products for other applications and can leverage that into different form factors. I picked up an lx100 for the great 4k it shoots. The stills are pretty mediocre, much like Pentax's video implementation. Panasonic have been big on multiple aspect ratio's for a while now and 4:3 is native to the sensor they use. Anamorphic was a matter of time, it's already the 4th generation of that product. Meanwhile Blackmagics and GoPro's even more so find these once niche markets and attacks them aggressively. Photography is a very much more well trodden road.
04-23-2015, 08:47 AM   #74
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Video SR was available on the K-7, K-x, K-r (I think), K-5 and K-5 II/IIs. It still works in live view on newer cameras, only recording is not possible. But it works. If one could output a full res HDMI stream without overlays people could use external recorders and record stabilized video that way. It is quite noisy in lower models, but the K-7, K-5 and K-3 are pretty quiet. Why not even those have the feature? Even if they turn off the internal mic, I wouldn't care.

I do think that Pentax won't think of anything. They are human. Pentax employees may be more into shooting landscapes as a hobby than being paid to shoot interiors or weddings or video. Will they then think of features that will come to mind when shooting those things? I have little clue what a landscape photog or wedding photog cares about.

Samsung did make their NX1 more flexible in terms of button configuration etc. They added some photo stuff too.

Anyway there is a dedicated thread to this subject where everyone agrees that they want video SR, and don't care about the noise. All I wanted to say about the subject here (and more) is already said, and I don't want to bring the thread further off topic.
04-23-2015, 10:10 AM   #75
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Fair enough mate, all good. I remember the horror of the kx video stabilisation, it scared me off for good!
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