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04-23-2015, 07:36 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
@ Rondec: Yes cheap camera but a great shot.

I hope this camera will be one of the best high ISO low light shots.
if same sensor as K3 how's it possible?? I also hoped

04-23-2015, 07:39 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
if same sensor as K3 how's it possible?? I also hoped
Even those who had direct contact with Ricoh were somewhat mislead (perhaps unintentionally) by the features of the new K3ii. Kenspo and Asahi Man were convinced that a new (latest) sensor would be showcased. It's a shame really, because I for one would have rather paid $200-300 more for a K3ii with a new sensor and improved DR, ISO performance. Ricoh should have gone all out with this release, making the K3ii the undisputed king of the APS-C world. What a missed opportunity.

Last edited by Stavri; 04-23-2015 at 07:52 PM.
04-23-2015, 08:15 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by neostyles Quote
60 years ago if you want to get shot that was taller than you, you would probably have to get something to stand on or something, but articulating touch screens help you to get shots from much higher vantage points.
60 years ago, you could use a TLR, or an SLR without a prism (Exacta, Hassy, whatever).

30 years ago, you could fit a waist level finder on your Pentax LX.
04-23-2015, 08:19 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
... What a missed opportunity.
What they probably didn't miss was a business case for something as different as you seem to suggest coulld have been done. Ricoh aren't in the business of losing money on sheer speculation (á la Sony, as interesting as their products are).

---------- Post added 24th Apr 2015 at 01:25 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
60 years ago, you could use a TLR, or an SLR without a prism (Exacta, Hassy, whatever).

30 years ago, you could fit a waist level finder on your Pentax LX.
Some of us still can…

On the other hand, you can use your smartphone on a K-3/ii with a Pentax FLUcard, in almost the same way.

04-23-2015, 11:05 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Shanti Quote
if same sensor as K3 how's it possible?? I also hoped
If it is possible with the D7200 using the same sensor, why not? Slightly different revision of the IMX193, different bias level, better optimized output (with the D7200 it's mostly the dynamic range being higher) - we will have to see... It's not impossible.
04-23-2015, 11:06 PM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The pixel shift technology is NOT a non event. It might not make a difference for cat pictures, but for some people it will be a godsend. And I think pixel peepers are going to take notice, it's just a matter of time.
I really fail to understand that:
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
- This work only for 100% still subjects. No living thing, no landscape if there wind or water or some living object in it. No studio if you are shooting a person. It will not work neither for long exposures like the typical waterfall, river or sea picture.

What is the use of more resolution anyway?
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
- Huge prints things like 40"x30" at least.

It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
04-23-2015, 11:31 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
It gives you much better color resolution and lower noise. MTF is going to be higher as well.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
It depends what you mean by resolution. More pixels and different angle of view, not necessarily more details of the same scene, unless you use different lenses. And it takes much more time as well. You can stack images of the same scene but it takes more time as well.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
Why? It should be doable.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
For some images heavy cropping is highly realistic, even if not by the photographer himself...
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
That's correct.
04-23-2015, 11:36 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Even those who had direct contact with Ricoh were somewhat mislead (perhaps unintentionally) by the features of the new K3ii. Kenspo and Asahi Man were convinced that a new (latest) sensor would be showcased. It's a shame really, because I for one would have rather paid $200-300 more for a K3ii with a new sensor and improved DR, ISO performance. Ricoh should have gone all out with this release, making the K3ii the undisputed king of the APS-C world. What a missed opportunity.
Is it confirmed that it is the same sensor? I haven't seen that anywhere. Isn't an electronic shutter a sensor dependent feature? The K-3 II has it but the K-3 doesn't. That would imply the sensor is different, I would have thought.

04-23-2015, 11:38 PM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Is it confirmed that it is the same sensor? I haven't seen that anywhere. Isn't an electronic shutter a sensor dependent feature? The K-3 II has it but the K-3 doesn't. That would imply the sensor is different, I would have thought.
Most preview website are saying the sensor its a carryover from K3 (if it wasn't true it would have been the first upgrade listed on Ricoh's brochure). I wasn't aware of the K3ii having an electronic shutter. Are you assuming its there because of the 'pixel shift'? ( I know it has a new sensor cleaning system)

Last edited by Stavri; 04-23-2015 at 11:44 PM.
04-23-2015, 11:43 PM - 1 Like   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stavri Quote
Most preview website are saying the sensor its a carryover from K3. I wasn't aware of the K3ii having an electronic shutter. Are you assuming its there because of the 'pixel shift"?


From the press release Q&A sheet.


Is the CMOS image sensor snd imaging engine identical to that of the K-3?Yes, it is.
04-23-2015, 11:48 PM   #176
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Pixel Shift Resolution

Advanced resolution technology for capturing still life subjects in ultra high definition
The CMOS sensor is operated to consecutively shoot four images for individual pixel. Using the overwhelmingly large volume of color information (24M×RGB), the Pixel Shift Resolution generates a single ultra-high-definition image. The increase in resolving power and color reproducibility makes it possible to obtain such high-definition images, especially when photographing stationary subjects. Noise is also greatly reduced, and, in theory, moiré and false color are not generated. During shooting, an electronic shutter is used so camera shake can be minimized.
04-23-2015, 11:59 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Is it confirmed that it is the same sensor? I haven't seen that anywhere
Yes, it is.
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Isn't an electronic shutter a sensor dependent feature? The K-3 II has it but the K-3 doesn't. That would imply the sensor is different, I would have thought.
Every sensor that does a LV or has a movie mode uses an electronic shutter for this.
04-24-2015, 12:00 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I really fail to understand that:
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
- This work only for 100% still subjects. No living thing, no landscape if there wind or water or some living object in it. No studio if you are shooting a person. It will not work neither for long exposures like the typical waterfall, river or sea picture.

What is the use of more resolution anyway?
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
- Huge prints things like 40"x30" at least.

It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
And what exactly is stopping you from doing both pixel shifting each shot and stitching several into a hyper-resolution panorama? I get it: nothing...you just want to cast a bad light on this.

Also, in the first point you argue that there is no need for extra resolution, yet in the very next one you argue for more, using panorama...

Straight question: what is your agenda here?
04-24-2015, 12:01 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I really fail to understand that:
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
- This work only for 100% still subjects. No living thing, no landscape if there wind or water or some living object in it. No studio if you are shooting a person. It will not work neither for long exposures like the typical waterfall, river or sea picture.

What is the use of more resolution anyway?
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
- Huge prints things like 40"x30" at least.

It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
Try a Sigma DP. You will see the difference immediatly.
Why wouldn't not be usable with long exposure? You put your filter and it will take 4 pics of any Tv setting (I hope...)
For me landscape, long exposure and still live are the main uses. Portrait "coulb" be doable. Why? A friend of mine use an old chamber with glass plate. You have to stay immobile for 30 seconds (using something to block head's movements). Using Pixel shift won't take more than one second in my opinion; so it's doable. I am very confident about this

The pos processing may be an issue but Kenspo will ask Ricoh about the output file format.
04-24-2015, 12:06 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I really fail to understand that:
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
- This work only for 100% still subjects. No living thing, no landscape if there wind or water or some living object in it. No studio if you are shooting a person. It will not work neither for long exposures like the typical waterfall, river or sea picture.

What is the use of more resolution anyway?
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
- Huge prints things like 40"x30" at least.

It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
The pixel shift can benefit in some scenario.
I used to shot several photos with tripod in the dark at high iso, then stacked them as one image to reduce noise. In theory, when 2 images can reduce 2x noise, 3 images can reduce more noise, infinite number of images can give noise free result. Build-in process in camera (in theory) can capture images so quick that the process also reduce the risk of shake/movement, and save a lot of time in post processing.

24Mpix should be more than enough for most of us, but in the noise reducing process, I might need to (1) apply NR, then (2) resample the image to lower solution. Still the D800 and Sony A7r with 36Mpix, at iso6400, NR can apply and resample to smaller size, like 24Mpix or 15Mpix, can give better result than original 24Mpix. That's why I see the pixel shift as a good feature, at least for me in some cases.

Stacking images can enhance dynamic, reduce noise, and imply clearer images. By reading the specs, I would like to get one. I am sure that LR and other will support this feature soon. It is a very cool feature
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