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04-24-2015, 04:47 AM - 1 Like   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by RockvilleBob Quote
It is refreshing to see new announcements and product enhancements. Not every enhancement and new product will be suited for every Pentax user. However in the past year or so we've seen the announcement in optics from the 1.4TC to new full frame lenses; high resolution studio/ professional 645D; several firmware updates; and now the K-3II. If a new particular lens, camera or other accessory is not for you - who cares - perhaps the next one will be up your alley. The introduction of new products, enhancements on a regular basis with more to come is great to see. Thank you Ricoh.
Yes, they seem to be showing themselves to be very smart since they are doing all this while keeping things fairly small and tight thus avoiding the excesses and difficulties the big outfits are now facing. They're gradually putting together a very nice portfolio of things the other outfits don't have (645 platform, pixel-shifting, the GR, etc.).

04-24-2015, 05:36 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by jaad75 Quote
K-5II brought one of the best low light AF module available, with substantially better accuracy comparing to its predecessor. The "s" version added increased resolution. Both had some improvements in P-TTL flash exposure and slightly worse LCD screen event if the flare resistance where slightly better. Anyway, it's far from nothing in my book - I upgraded from the K-5, to the IIs version and it was surprisingly a big change.
There is a chance that they really improved the AF-C in the K-3II and optimized the sensor output, so just those two will bring changes worth upgrading. Especially if they don't pass it down to older models...

That's completely different thing with different application.
It can be easy done in post process, pixel shifting can't.
Super resolution can be done as post process without sensor shift. It need more processing power but it embedded in almost all 4K TV to simulate 4K resolution from 2K content. It enough to have a few frame of the same scene with any movement to infer much more detail. (On the contrary it would not work if no movement). This is just the horse power and complexity of algorithms is not the same. TV does it plugged to a wall for power and limited to 2K=>4K upscalling but you go far futher.

The general tendancy is that software and algorithms will be more and more part of the game and will compensate for more mediocre hardware while still providing supperior results. Not long ago, there was no optical corrections and having a lense prone to purple frigging or other optical aberation was quite an issue. Now outside of extreme case, you don't see it anymore.
04-24-2015, 05:40 AM - 1 Like   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote

The K3-II (or K3) could have included the software to make panorama in its firmware offering much broader application spectrum. It could have improved the flash so it could effectively replaced a basic cobra dedicated flash in most situations, making it innovative and clearly distinguish itself.

Instead we get geotagging, astro tracer and better 24MP while on a tripod.
And these are great (the bolded), unlike efforts wasted on a measly on-board flash. You are also forgetting improvements in SR, both in effectiveness and panning capability (this one returning) plus a number of minor improvements. I consider this a bigger upgrade than K5 to K5ii (and I have both of those cameras).

Panorama stitching has it's own problems and they are not few.

Last edited by Rorschach; 04-24-2015 at 06:53 AM.
04-24-2015, 05:57 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Not just landscapes. The new system could work very well for interiors like the old churches I like to photograph. They are full of detail, interesting textures and subtle hues on the old stonework. The proof of course will be how this all pans out in practice, but perhaps it is best seen as the first iteration of something which could gradually develop into a a very powerful and adaptable tool. Chances are that over the next few years, beefier processors, new sensors and more sophisticated software will take the idea further than it can go right now.

Now where is the new 14mm F/2.8 that can handle the super resolution edge to edge?

04-24-2015, 06:01 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Super resolution can be done as post process without sensor shift.
But you need to average many more images and still have a little movement to get more real details. It's time and processing power hungry. I prefer full color capture than interpolating from interpolated ones.
QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
It need more processing power but it embedded in almost all 4K TV to simulate 4K resolution from 2K content. It enough to have a few frame of the same scene with any movement to infer much more detail. (On the contrary it would not work if no movement).
As far as I know it's just the regular upscaling usually and it's not going to give you more details.
04-24-2015, 06:12 AM - 1 Like   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I have no particular agenda, I just feel that the new K3-II bring almost nothing a bit like the new K5-II did bring almost nothing. At least the K5-IIs did remove the low pass filter an increase in sharpness that applied to all shoots. This applied to all shoots. Not a few ones.

As for arguing for more resolution, I simply explain how somebody that want it can get it if needed. Not limited to better 24MP, but ilimited basically.

The thing is sticking a panorama is something you can do with you current camera (even your smartphone again). It can be very easy just take a cheap tele and do it, it can even be done handled for simple cases. While I still think this most often not necessary and bothersome you can get a 50MP in a few seconds by just stiching 3 shots.

The technique work will moving subjects if they are not part of several pictures, it allow for very shallow deph of field (brenizer), almost unlimited resolution if your tele is long enough and also allow to have wider angle of view than what your lens permit. It open possibility for virtual tours and 360 viewing.

While panorama stiching is still bothersome and limited in its use, it's potential applications are much broader and effective.

The K3-II (or K3) could have included the software to make panorama in its firmware offering much broader application spectrum. It could have improved the flash so it could effectively replaced a basic cobra dedicated flash in most situations, making it innovative and clearly distinguish itself.

Instead we get geotagging, astro tracer and better 24MP while on a tripod.
Remember, this is an "ii" camera, an update to an existing camera. My guess is that Pentax is pushing some marginal improvements to us as part of a long-term path. Many of these probably would have been new to the full-frame camera, but this enables Pentax to get them in the hands of real users to get additional testing, beyond what guys like kenspro have already done before the full frame camera, whatever they call it, is released. Some of them may be steps to the next truly new cameras next year. There could also be some internal benefits that we won't see the effects of right away. All of this can be seen in their very conservative pricing, which as LeGuillotine has already commented, may force them to do more adjusting (downward) of prices than they would normally do at this point.
04-24-2015, 06:53 AM - 3 Likes   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I really fail to understand that:
- It is still 24MP and the original K3 provide already quite sharp 24MP images, in particular if you are already on a tripod.
- When on a tripod or even handled, doing a panorama give you much more in term of resolution.
- You can only post process it in the camera or with Pentax provided camera software. Not possible to use Lightroom or DxO.
- This work only for 100% still subjects. No living thing, no landscape if there wind or water or some living object in it. No studio if you are shooting a person. It will not work neither for long exposures like the typical waterfall, river or sea picture.

What is the use of more resolution anyway?
- Heavy cropping... Not realistic. When on a tripod you are much more likely to carefully frame your image, in particular if you want all that resolution
- Huge prints things like 40"x30" at least.

It may sell cameras but the practical use of this is very limited.
Just going to put this out there again in case someone hasn't seen it. Everybody can make their mind up on whether they think this is a good thing or not!



Just because you don't have a use for it, doesn't mean no one else does. I really don't understand this "I don't want it so no one else should want it" attitude.

In my case - if I have a chance to go into old buildings like churches and monasteries and take pictures, I like to do that. Hopefully I can do more of it in the future. This would be a godsend for that. Also, stock photography. Landscapes. So many possibilities.

---------- Post added 04-24-15 at 09:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Now where is the new 14mm F/2.8 that can handle the super resolution edge to edge?
Samyang already makes it, you just need to deal with the distortion and you're ready to go
04-24-2015, 07:06 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I have no particular agenda, I just feel that the new K3-II bring almost nothing a bit like the new K5-II did bring almost nothing. At least the K5-IIs did remove the low pass filter an increase in sharpness that applied to all shoots. This applied to all shoots. Not a few ones.

As for arguing for more resolution, I simply explain how somebody that want it can get it if needed. Not limited to better 24MP, but ilimited basically.

The thing is sticking a panorama is something you can do with you current camera (even your smartphone again). It can be very easy just take a cheap tele and do it, it can even be done handled for simple cases. While I still think this most often not necessary and bothersome you can get a 50MP in a few seconds by just stiching 3 shots.

The technique work will moving subjects if they are not part of several pictures, it allow for very shallow deph of field (brenizer), almost unlimited resolution if your tele is long enough and also allow to have wider angle of view than what your lens permit. It open possibility for virtual tours and 360 viewing.

While panorama stiching is still bothersome and limited in its use, it's potential applications are much broader and effective.

The K3-II (or K3) could have included the software to make panorama in its firmware offering much broader application spectrum. It could have improved the flash so it could effectively replaced a basic cobra dedicated flash in most situations, making it innovative and clearly distinguish itself.

Instead we get geotagging, astro tracer and better 24MP while on a tripod.
So go buy a lens instead. If you have the K-3 you have a very capable body. The K-3II has a few improvements, maybe not enough to upgrade but enough to keep the aps-c fresh. I'm surprised they did anything with resources going to the full frame.

Improved SR and AF are nothing to sneeze at. I miss more shots from the shortcomings of those two than limits of the sensor. Although I would gladly take a better sensor as well.

04-24-2015, 07:28 AM - 1 Like   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Super resolution can be done as post process without sensor shift. It need more processing power but it embedded in almost all 4K TV to simulate 4K resolution from 2K content. It enough to have a few frame of the same scene with any movement to infer much more detail. (On the contrary it would not work if no movement). This is just the horse power and complexity of algorithms is not the same. TV does it plugged to a wall for power and limited to 2K=>4K upscalling but you go far futher.

The general tendancy is that software and algorithms will be more and more part of the game and will compensate for more mediocre hardware while still providing supperior results. Not long ago, there was no optical corrections and having a lense prone to purple frigging or other optical aberation was quite an issue. Now outside of extreme case, you don't see it anymore.
I don't think you understand what the super resolution is. It's not upscaling an image to get more megapixels (eg upscaling 2k-4k) which blurs the detail you have because you can't add detail that's not there, it's not stitching multiple photos together to get more x and y resolution, which can easily be done in post. This takes a sample of the rgb values at every pixel giving the image more color resolution than standard images, where one pixel only records an r, g, or b value and the processing engine samples the surrounding pixels to make up the missing color information. This is why if you ever look at the images from the Foveon sensor, they have unprecedented detail per pixel where typical sensors tend to look very blurry at the pixel level. This is also why silly marketing people at Sigma advertise their cameras to have thrice their real resolution.
04-24-2015, 07:35 AM   #205
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ChristianRock, that is a HUGE difference in clarity between the two images.
04-24-2015, 07:44 AM - 3 Likes   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote

Just because you don't have a use for it, doesn't mean no one else does. I really don't understand this "I don't want it so no one else should want it" attitude.
thank you!

K3 now comes in two versions, a flash version, and a GPS version. Take your pick. simple.

Maybe the FF will be offered in two(or more) versions as well?
04-24-2015, 10:04 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The new system could work very well for interiors like the old churches I like to photograph.
If they let you use a tripod. Many places don't.
04-24-2015, 11:28 AM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
If they let you use a tripod. Many places don't.
Fortunately, no probs for me in the many old village churches round here. I am almost always the only person there. But I take your point about larger venues and in big cities generally too. A bean bag and an IR remote could come in useful ...
04-24-2015, 11:31 AM   #209
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I found this short article on the new k3 II.


New Gear: Pentax K-3 II DSLR Has Special Star Photography Skills | Popular Photography
04-24-2015, 11:32 AM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
If they let you use a tripod. Many places don't.
If they don't allow tripods you'll have other problems These places aren't well lit, and you'll end up with hand held pictures that are either a bit blurry or have high ISO - which robs a lot of the detail.
EXCEPT! With the K-3II's 4.5 stops of SR, you might be able to get a slower shutter speed and lower ISO - and actually end up with better pictures than you would with any other Pentax camera

Last edited by ChristianRock; 04-24-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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