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04-28-2015, 04:36 AM   #376
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The only possibly-useful Bolt-made flash I could find at B&H is the VS-510P. Is that the one you are referring to? The description doesn't make clear whether it can be used as a master. The price listed for it is $30 more than the Pentax AF201FG and weighs at least twice as much.
Yes. The description says it can be used as a master and it is listed in some places for as little as $120, though on second look, that may be used. It is a much bigger, more capable flash so one would expect it to cost far more. It does not seem necessary to add that much cost for P-TTL. People seem to put out a lot of assumptions about what the tradeoffs were.

---------- Post added 04-28-15 at 05:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
I can't believe this hand-wringing is still going on. People can buy the K3 basic or K-S2 and get on with their photography and life.
This is a camera forum. We talk about these things. If one does not like the discussion, one can just get on with the photography.

It is interesting that I don't hear that kind of language like "hand wringing" or "I can't live without it" from the people who are simply saying I need this feature better than that one.

---------- Post added 04-28-15 at 05:44 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
I have worked as a pro for almost 6 years. I have never once had use for the flash. But some might needed it, others not. If a camera doesn't have what you need, get another one. Just stop stupid arguments. The flash won't come back on the Mark II no mather how much you want it or cry for it. They make cameras to please as many as they can, they dont make cameras just to please YOU! This discussion has made me take out my popcorn. But I'm close to go from eating the popcorn, to start trowing it at some people. World is not fair, get used to it!


And if i piss someone of now, i really couldn't care less
Wow. Look at the language used here for the folks who just say I need a flash more than a GPS. Crying? Stupid? Can't a camera board host a reasonable debate about which feature makes more sense? I think that kind of feedback is one of the reasons this forum exists.


Last edited by GeneV; 04-28-2015 at 04:46 AM.
04-28-2015, 04:46 AM   #377
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I see another closed thread coming.
04-28-2015, 04:52 AM   #378
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QuoteOriginally posted by totsmuyco Quote
Though at times it's an edge to have the pop up flash for emergencies, I still believe this is a good camera and that it will perform very well what it's suppose to do.
I don't think that I or anyone else who thinks the flash was not a good trade has said this is not a "good camera." I can point to quite a few photos I could not have taken if there hadn't been a flash on board. Not so for a GPS. Customer feedback.

Sometime it seems like we talk as though someone made a remark about our significant others when there is a suggestion that a decision about a tool, an inanimate object, is questionable.
04-28-2015, 04:55 AM   #379
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Yes. The description says it can be used as a master and it is listed in some places for as little as $120, though on second look, that may be used. It is a much bigger, more capable flash so one would expect it to cost far more. It does not seem necessary to add that much cost for P-TTL. People seem to put out a lot of assumptions about what the tradeoffs were.

---------- Post added 04-28-15 at 05:40 AM ----------



This is a camera forum. We talk about these things. If one does not like the discussion, one can just get on with the photography.

It is interesting that I don't hear that kind of language like "hand wringing" or "I can't live without it" from the people who are simply saying I need this feature better than that one.

---------- Post added 04-28-15 at 05:44 AM ----------



Wow. Look at the language used here for the folks who just say I need a flash more than a GPS. Crying? Stupid? Can't a camera board host a reasonable debate about which feature makes more sense? I think that kind of feedback is one of the reasons this forum exists.
It is fine to have a debate about which feature makes more sense. I don't currently use either, so not sure where that leaves me. But the arguments become more and more polarized, with less and less point. Pentax isn't going to stick a pop up flash on this new camera and if you want one, then you need to buy a different camera (if you need one). Pop up flash will likely be left off of the full frame camera as well.

In the end, it is a debate that isn't really winnable by either side. But it does seem to be an inflammatory issue for some reason.

04-28-2015, 05:02 AM   #380
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is fine to have a debate about which feature makes more sense. I don't currently use either, so not sure where that leaves me. But the arguments become more and more polarized, with less and less point. Pentax isn't going to stick a pop up flash on this new camera and if you want one, then you need to buy a different camera (if you need one). Pop up flash will likely be left off of the full frame camera as well.

In the end, it is a debate that isn't really winnable by either side. But it does seem to be an inflammatory issue for some reason.
I don't know why it is inflammatory to request a feature. Do you not think Ricoh pays any attention to what we say? No likelihood that we will get a compact flash with wireless controller for the shoe? (I think that is all many of us want) In any case, this is my last post on the subject.

Last edited by GeneV; 04-28-2015 at 05:17 AM.
04-28-2015, 05:28 AM   #381
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I don't see that people that prefer the astro tracer and pixel shifting are wrong. Neither the one that are disapointed by the lack of flash.

This is comical in a sense is that is you are disapointed by the lack of flash and say it then suddenly you are a bad guy. You should not say it in the thread of K3-II, say only positive things or nothing and you should just leave if you are not happy.

Like you don't have the right to express your point of view and try to have it recognized. I'am annoyed by the issue and I would prefer it is clear and if me and many other show they are annoyed we may indeed make things change. The K3-II might be soon replaced by a K3-III model or even a new model (K1? K2) might replaced it sooner and have the flash back (in 2 words please !).

I think this is very legitimate and I'am sorry but it is not because we disagree that only one facet should remain legitimate. All opinion are good and interresting and I don't see issue with that.
04-28-2015, 05:30 AM   #382
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I don't know why it is inflammatory to request a feature. Do you not think Ricoh pays any attention to what we say? No likelihood that we will get a compact flash with wireless controller for the shoe? (I think that is all many of us want) In any case, this is my last post on the subject.
Ricoh for sure is listening. Are they listening specifically this thread? This is very possible after all there may be say 20 thread overall in the world in well known forums, or at most 50 speaking of the new K-S2... A guy spending 1 week should be able to review the opinion of the different reviewers, forumers and other on what are the reaction to the product. This is a very low investement to get the reaction to your product.

They can combine that with the sales and compare it with sales of for example K5-II and combine the 2 vector of information to see if they made a good choice or not and conclude on what to do for future products.
04-28-2015, 05:32 AM   #383
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I don't know why it is inflammatory to request a feature. Do you not think Ricoh pays any attention to what we say? No likelihood that we will get a compact flash with wireless controller for the shoe? (I think that is all many of us want) In any case, this is my last post on the subject.
Then request it for their next model, ok please? Because no amount of requesting is going to bring it back for this particular model.

04-28-2015, 05:35 AM - 1 Like   #384
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenspo Quote
Nah..I often shoot in the studio or at arenas. I know where those places are I care just as little about the gps..Think you missed my point. If you want the flash, buy the K-3. If you dont, and want GPS build in, buy the Mark II. People can nag as much as they want for one thing or another, it won't be changed on anyway.
I don't need to buy a K-3... I already have one. But back to your point about Ricoh making cameras to please as many people as they can. The comments in the thread suggest some are concerned that Ricoh hasn't done that and that's why people are bringing it up. It's not that they are "nagging" for Ricoh to put the OBF back on the K-3 II (which won't happen, obviously) but rather they believe there's a good chance Ricoh has lessened the overall appeal of the camera which is not good for the Pentax brand. In that regard, I think everyone here has a common interest though we have differing views on what is good for the brand.

But I keep coming back to these two points which I believe are actual facts:
1) OBF is a photographic tool though it can be a crude one in some situations
2) GPS is not a photographic tool, it's an information tool

Personally, I like the GPS capability. I'm not sure the buying masses will agree with me, though, and I imagine Ricoh has already stopped production of the original K-3.

Last edited by IchabodCrane; 04-28-2015 at 05:41 AM.
04-28-2015, 05:41 AM   #385
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
Ricoh for sure is listening. Are they listening specifically this thread? This is very possible after all there may be say 20 thread overall in the world in well known forums, or at most 50 speaking of the new K-S2... A guy spending 1 week should be able to review the opinion of the different reviewers, forumers and other on what are the reaction to the product. This is a very low investement to get the reaction to your product.

They can combine that with the sales and compare it with sales of for example K5-II and combine the 2 vector of information to see if they made a good choice or not and conclude on what to do for future products.
Sure they listen. And i am sure they listen to these with an especially keen ear: Full Frame- Market Launch 2015 - RIAC Community

If you have the free time and energy, feel free to go through the entire thing and count how many times 'GPS' is mentioned as a wish. I have neither so I won't do it but based on a cursory glance it appears there were many mentions.
04-28-2015, 05:43 AM - 1 Like   #386
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I dont undertand the bug with OBF . The moment you will put a Zoom lenses on the camera and you decide to use OBF, you will get shadow. A very small % of peoples use prime lense as their main lenses. The kit come with 3 typezoom. Without a OBF , chance of user mistake using flash with zoom is reduce. And imagine if you have a hood???
Ricoh was smart
04-28-2015, 05:48 AM   #387
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I don't know why it is inflammatory to request a feature. Do you not think Ricoh pays any attention to what we say? No likelihood that we will get a compact flash with wireless controller for the shoe? (I think that is all many of us want) In any case, this is my last post on the subject.
I guess it is just an odd back and forth. I need this feature... But I need this other feature more... No you don't... Yes I do... When the K3 II is set. As I said before I don't use either GPS or pop up flash and wasn't clamor isn't for a change.
04-28-2015, 06:01 AM   #388
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Meh.

Who needs that pesky tripod hole in the camera base?
Pro photogs use a vice and a concrete bench to secure their camera.
04-28-2015, 06:01 AM   #389
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I suspect the small uproar will die down soon and life will proceed onward..
04-28-2015, 06:04 AM   #390
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I see it like this: Ricoh have swapped an external GPS add-on costing /$ 200 until recently which has no alternative, with any one of many external flash add-ons that can cost considerably less than the O-GPS 1, and which should result in better flash photos. This has not resulted in a significant price change for the camera body.

The net effect is to provide more flexibility and choices for Pentax owners at lower cost, and for those who don't want the better-value-for-money choice offered, there are alternative Pentax bodies available, with more on the way. Given that flash and GPS could not both be shoehorned into the same K-3 body, and that GPS is seen as a useful option and good selling point by all camera makes, partly because it has come to be expected for some time by say the mobile phone users who we want to upgrade to a DSLR, I think Ricoh have made a good choice. K-3 II now offers several things that differentiate it in a positive way from the DSLR big boys and that must be the way for the Pentax brand to survive and grow, I'd have thought.

Maybe future models will be able to contain both GPS and popup flash but in the meantime, Ricoh have made an interesting decision to go with built-in features that cannot easily or quickly be replicated by CaNikon (astrotracer etc.) and quite a few new users may be attracted by that. Seems to me that it's a good way to 'grow the brand' as the marketeers would say; hats off to Ricoh for thinking out of the box.

Last edited by Dave L; 04-28-2015 at 06:10 AM.
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