[monochrome]

Maybe they will do that again with a K-3 IIs, with flash and WiFi included, but maybe not GPS ...

I hope they offer both options.

I'm a bit scared of the talks that there was no room for wifi or nfc in K-3II. The FF body seems to be not much bigger and we were going to get a pro body, so if there's no wifi (for remote control and tethering, I could care less about uploading to web) or they drop out the GPS & tracker, will it be interesting enough to sell the quantity it needs to, to bring Pentax in the serious pro club?

Please remember the FF is designed ground-up to include whatever they put in, as will likely be the next APSc flagship body (K-3 body is essentially the same as the K-5 and K-7). Given that they didn't re-engineer the K-3II they had to remove something to add something.

[rawr]

The K-S1 is not "dropped"

Maybe I'm mistaken.
But around the web I have seen what look like run-out deals on it.

[jaad75]

But around the web I have seen what look like run-out deals on it.

The initial price was set pretty high for a lower entry level model, that's it. Probably they thought it was going to sell better, but they didn't drop it. Not yet, anyway.

[reytor]

I hope they offer both options.
Please remember the FF is designed ground-up to include whatever they put in, as will likely be the next APSc flagship body (K-3 body is essentially the same as the K-5 and K-7). Given that they didn't re-engineer the K-3II they had to remove something to add something.

Yes, but for the size of the FF mockup, it will be very difficult to include the bigger sensor & shutter & mirror, two procesors, GPS, WIFI, NFC, hopefully better AF sensor, imoroved flash system (with onboard radio trigger), hybid OVF, etc... required if it wants to kick Canikon a$$.
I can perfectly live without many SW quirks - like the digital filters, but the HW should be top-of-the-shelf stuff to really make a break through to pro market. Now, I'm not a pro, not even a semi one, this is -at least for the moment - "only" a hobby for me, but I'd really like to see Pentax back in the serious game.

[jaad75]

, two procesors,

Just one, unless they switch from Milbeaut.

[monochrome]

Since it is a brand new body designed from the ground up, potentially with brand new circuit boards, frame, chassis, sub-assembly manufacturing processes, component supplier design input, anything and everything else

Yes, but for the size of the FF mockup, it will be very difficult to include the bigger sensor & shutter & mirror,

the body IS bigger

two procesors, GPS, WIFI, NFC, hopefully better AF sensor, imoroved flash system (with onboard radio trigger),

can be designed in miniature onto circuit boards rather than crammed into space never designed to accept them

hybid OVF,

speculative

etc... required if it wants to kick Canikon a$$.

assuming they want to kick Canikon a$$

I can perfectly live without many SW quirks - like the digital filters, but the HW should be top-of-the-shelf stuff to really make a break through to pro market. Now, I'm not a pro, not even a semi one, this is -at least for the moment - "only" a hobby for me, but I'd really like to see Pentax back in the serious game.

They've openly stated, in addition to WR and AW, IBIS, ergonomics and small size, their goal is AF will be a distinguishing, market-leading characteristic. It will be a process of constant improvement. They'll be an alternative to CaNikon, not a 'better' CaNikon.

[filoxophy]

I hope they offer both options.
Please remember the FF is designed ground-up to include whatever they put in, as will likely be the next APSc flagship body (K-3 body is essentially the same as the K-5 and K-7). Given that they didn't re-engineer the K-3II they had to remove something to add something.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Nicolas06]

I would think that a flash capable of bouncing enough light off a ceiling to do any good would have to put out more light than a built-in flash normally does; the output of the usual built-in flash is just plain pathetic.

I think this is typically a guide number of arround 12... I think through that if one wanted it could boost it to say a guide number of 20. Then don't forget to factor the isos. At iso 400 you get a factor of 2, at iso 1600 a factor of 4.

It would not light a whole church for sure, but it could be enough in most situation you may not be able to keep iso 100, but the image might have better color at iso800-1600 to keep part of the ambiant light anyway. It would be enough to get pleasing shoots in many situations.

It could do high speed sync, in direct for fill in, it might help too.

For sure for studio etc, a few dedicated flashes would remain necessary, but that not opposite with having a less old school flash in the camera body.

[thibs]

May I remind some folks here that, although this is certainly no perfect solution, Metz sell flashes compatible with Pentax DSLRs which:

- appart from WR, do not miss a feature AFAICT
- add quite a bunch of nice things on top AND...
- offer a second reflector allowing bounce +small front flash.

[RobA_Oz]

The initial price was set pretty high for a lower entry level model, that's it. Probably they thought it was going to sell better, but they didn't drop it. Not yet, anyway.

They won't drop it altogether, if it's continuing to sell well in Japan, which I think most here agree is the best market for it.

[Nicolas06]

May I remind some folks here that, although this is certainly no perfect solution, Metz sell flashes compatible with Pentax DSLRs which:

- appart from WR, do not miss a feature AFAICT
- add quite a bunch of nice things on top AND...
- offer a second reflector allowing bounce +small front flash.

I'am aware, I have one...

That a bit like we could remind some folks Pentax sell an astro tracer separately or that if you sync your camera and phone time you can use your phone GPS to geotags photos.

That just a matter of who it serve... And maybe a mater of size in the bag too.

[GeneV]

As someone early on hinted, Pentax could have blunted a lot of the flash issue by releasing a compact flash which acts as a wireless controller and is more capable. Sony did this when they eliminated he flash from the FF, and eliminated the wireless controller from the flash in the APS-C mirrorless bodies. The Sony flash is small, runs off two AAA batts, bounces, diffuses and controls. Metz made its own version. It slips in a pocket more easily than the first iPhone, and you never miss the popup.

Now, if the smallest flash with these capabilities is the AF360, it is not the same.

[D1N0]

A large majority of shooters will never use their Pentax in a studio flash set-up. Those that do are just incredibly loud about the missing pop-up flash. Just like the I will flash anything I can even when the sun is out crowd. Maybe they could just skip the K-3II (there is no need to upgrade with every new model) en continue using the K-3 which is a perfectly fine camera.

[reh321]

A large majority of shooters will never use their Pentax in a studio flash set-up. Those that do are just incredibly loud about the missing pop-up flash. Just like the I will flash anything I can even when the sun is out crowd. Maybe they could just skip the K-3II (there is no need to upgrade with every new model) en continue using the K-3 which is a perfectly fine camera.

I would think that connecting something to the hot-shoe would be a very reasonable alternative in a studio setup - that those who need flash out in the field are those who will miss the tiny point-source pop-up flash for setting off their real stuff, and yes, sticking with the K-3 may be the best alternative available to them. My concern is what happens when the full-frame camera eventually is unveiled? .My assumption has been that the K-3ii is kind of a test bed for that setup.

[bernhardn]

I wonder, how manny people will switch from the normal K3 to the K3 ii?