[kenspo]

So you are doing all manual, no TTL?

Yes, always

[Not a Number]

what is Nikon doing selling $3000 cameras with an OBF? If market share figures count for anything then you'd conclude they know at least as much about the market as Ricoh.

But it has no built-in GPS.

[JinDesu]

Canon's 1D series doesn't have built in flash either.

[D1N0]

Canon's 1D series doesn't have built in flash either.

Nor the 5D series

[Rorschach]

There indeed market segmentation between models on brands. Some are small/light (and not less expensive), some are with lot of pixels other are optimized for ultimate action/sport with more FPS, better AF, better high iso... Some are oriented toward video...

Ricoh clearly target outdoor/kikers ... But it include both people going with a tripod or on the opposite people that want to pack light. The K3-II is obviously more oriented for the one with the tripod (astrotracer, pixel shift) rather than the ones packing light.

Wrong. With K3-II you do not need to carry the external GPS unit which saves on weight. I haven't used a traditional tripod in a while, instead I use a Gorillapod, one of their sturdier models. Like this one, doesn't weigh more than a fraction of a traditional tripod: JOBY GorillaPod SLR-Zoom - Portable, flexible tripod for telephoto lens cameras So, you see, it really is a pack light camera and can still utilize the pixel shift feature without any problems. The Gorillapod actually adds a great deal of flexibility as you can firmly attach it to a tree branch, wrap around a suitable rock outcrop, wedge it in crevices etc...

The following is not directed specifically at you, Nicolas, it is a general rant.

I can't believe how people can't think out of the traditional box with anything: "If it's a tripod-only feature, it must use one of those traditional behemoth tripods". "The pop-up flash MUST be there, otherwise it's not a real camera. I do not care that Pentax has actually enabled the simultaneous use of a flash and a GPS unit"

And then we have some here craving for more creativity from Pentax/Ricoh. I think some of us need to find a little creativity in ourselves first. Embracing the thought "think outside the box" is a nice place to start.

[IchabodCrane]

Canon's 1D series doesn't have built in flash either.

Most who own a 1D already have more money invested in flash equipment than a K-3 II costs.

[JinDesu]

Most who own a 1D already have more money invested in flash equipment than a K-3 II costs.

You're the one bringing up a $3000 camera with in body flash. I'm mentioning a similar price range camera from a competitor that doesn't, and hasn't put anything in there to replace the flash. But they kept the hump of course.

Maybe Nikon optimized their production line to just include the flash.

[thibs]

Most who own a 1D already have more money invested in flash equipment than a K-3 II costs.

Oh, so the "cheap" argument, once again ? (note the quotes, this is all relative)
btw, I don't even think you're right with that statement but well....

Ricoh chases Pros with their upper segment. We like it or not.
I like the positioning but at the same time, I will probably NEVER be able to afford a middle/high end FF from Pentax. Can't be perfect.

[IchabodCrane]

Oh, so the "cheap" argument, once again ? (note the quotes, this is all relative)
btw, I don't even think you're right with that statement but well....

Ricoh chases Pros with their upper segment. We like it or not.
I like the positioning but at the same time, I will probably NEVER be able to afford a middle/high end FF from Pentax. Can't be perfect.

No, that wasn't the "cheap" argument at all. Instead, the few people who actually own a 1D are the least likely to ever need an OBF. They already have an enormous investment in flash gear AND they probably have other cameras with an OBF for those times when they are out and about without their $15,000 in 1D gear.

[JinDesu]

Sounds like we could get a k-3II and a KS-2 and do a similar thing.

[IchabodCrane]

You're the one bringing up a $3000 camera with in body flash. I'm mentioning a similar price range camera from a competitor that doesn't, and hasn't put anything in there to replace the flash. But they kept the hump of course.

Maybe Nikon optimized their production line to just include the flash.

I think Canon kept the hump because they kept the pentaprism. Sure, your example is a good one but a 5D's market is quite far from Pentax's market. It's the standard for wedding photographers and events in general.

[reh321]

No, that wasn't the "cheap" argument at all. Instead, the few people who actually own a 1D are the least likely to ever need an OBF. They already have an enormous investment in flash gear AND they probably have other cameras with an OBF for those times when they are out and about without their $15,000 in 1D gear.

Yeah, but the argument in favor of having an OBF on a camera seems to be that it is the only way provided by Pentax to coordinate several flashes operating under P-TTL; if you are willing/able to go "old school" and control exposure by manually adjusting flash output or lens aperture, then you have lots more options.

[mee]

Yeah, but the argument in favor of having an OBF on a camera seems to be that it is the only way provided by Pentax to coordinate several flashes operating under P-TTL; if you are willing/able to go "old school" and control exposure by manually adjusting flash output or lens aperture, then you have lots more options.

If you're coordinating multiple flashes you don't want TTL anyways.. you want manual..

(P)-TTL for run and gun events with a single flash.. when one starts adding multiple flashes in multiple locations, it starts to increase the likelihood that the exposure will be incorrect.

[Class A]

I dont notice any difference beside the sync time. So its just as good. I use 2x 540 II and 1 540..Phottix triggers and receivers. Bought them for my Nikon, but works just as good on the K-3.

You may want to try Cactus V6 triggers some time because they would allow you to manually remote control the power levels of your flashes.

[reh321]

If you're coordinating multiple flashes you don't want TTL anyways.. you want manual..
(P)-TTL for run and gun events with a single flash.. when one starts adding multiple flashes in multiple locations, it starts to increase the likelihood that the exposure will be incorrect.

The "Specs of K-3II" thread is now closed; I'm guessing that a fairly intense series of posts between me and jaad75 probably contributed to its being closed. The last in that series was #753

No, the built-in flash provides master/controller capabilities.

My take-home lesson from that series is that much of the resistance to removal of the OBF is that a number of loyal Pentax users are very much attached to the process of taking a flash picture using the OBF as master and at least one larger flash as slave under P-TTL control; the OBF provides a pathetic amount of light, but apparently they feel it is enough to fill-in the weaknesses of the other flash. If it were not for those users, having the OBF omitted from the K-3ii would have been a minor issue instead of the major one it became, and trying to explore all the implications of this discovery combined with my own needs to motivate many of the questions I've asked these past few days.