[Stavri]

It is really fast, that's true but I tend to think that my (now sold) 50-135 that is slow to focus tend to be more precise and a bit sharper overall than my F135. It accept more crop for example. The 50-135 was unable to do any sport with the K5 through and I think the F135 could have handled it. It is better to not have the focus perfect than to be totally off because the lense is too slow.

The F135 can be quite sharp, maybe its me but with it I require a bit more shoots to be covered and also the lense has more optical issues (more CA, a bit less contrasty, you really benefit from closing at least to f/5.6).

But don't get me wrong, the rendering is really really nice and I quite enjoy the lense. I prefer the F135 overall but it may be more due to size than ultimate quality or ultimate AF.

Addressing the AF on the K3: It's well known that the SDM lenses are not responsive to take advantage of the K3 tracking, this is why a lot of folks prefer the AF-C of the K5II/S on SDM lenses (the bottleneck in the K3-SDM system is the SDM not the camera)

Back when I had the DA* 50-135 I compared it to the -F 135 f2.8. The zoom is at its weakest @ 135mm and it performed admirable but wasn't a match for the prime IMO. Interestingly enough the zoom had visibly better transmittance, although i kept the settings identical the DA* 50--135 produced noticeably brighter images by roughly 1/2 stop. Perhaps you copy of the DA* 50-135 is amazing and the F not as good ( mine was the other way around)

[Nicolas06]

Addressing the AF on the K3: It's well known that the SDM lenses are not responsive to take advantage of the K3 tracking, this is why a lot of folks prefer the AF-C of the K5II/S on SDM lenses (the bottleneck in the K3-SDM system is the SDM not the camera)

Back when I had the DA* 50-135 I compared it to the -F 135 f2.8. The zoom is at its weakest @ 135mm and it performed admirable but wasn't a match for the prime IMO. Interestingly enough the zoom had visibly better transmittance, although i kept the settings identical the DA* 50--135 produced noticeably brighter images by roughly 1/2 stop. Perhaps you copy of the DA* 50-135 is amazing and the F not as good ( mine was the other way around)

The SDM K3 issue doesn't match my experience: the 50-135 was really weak on AF with K5 an became much much nicer with K3. Still slow but quite faster and also spot on. As for quality I think the F135 can really render admirably but it is also much more sensitive to flare and CA so it would depend a lot on the subject. CA are quite common outisde at f/2.8 with the F135 for example.

Maybe a great F135 shoot is better than a great 50-135 shoot in character (the rendering is quite great) but you may have to fight a bit more to get it.

[MikeD]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated. On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot. For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

[enoeske]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated.

Because a good garmin would not embed that data in the image file. Nor would it tell you which direction your camera is facing when the photo was taken. Nor would it allow Astrotracing that allows the sensor to follow the stars and eliminate star trails...

On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot.

What numbers are you speaking of? Do you have any evidence that the pop-up flash is used more than a built in gps? Just putting tissue paper over the flash does not magically make it a larger, softer light source. All that would do is dim the flash. I have taken photos as proof of this if you would like to see them.

For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

That's nice. But it doesn't really say anything about the market other than what you personally want.

[JimmyDranox]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated.

The explanation is quite simple. People are different, very different. Sometime is difficult to accept this, but that's the reality. Some people can't understand what we are doing with those big and ''old fashion'' DSLR, Other don't need a flash on the camera..

One of the very, very, very few politicians that I appreciate has said this:

''I will fight all my live for your right to disagree with me''

What is difficult?

[VisualDarkness]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated. On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot. For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

For me the major pro is to always have astrotracer with me. For some reason I always encounter the most wonderful starscapes or space phenomenon when I don't have my OGPS1 with me, and that is annoying to say the least. Also it frees up the hot shoe so that I can mount my red dot sight for easy aiming with my longer lenses.

[Class A]

One of the very, very, very few politicians that I appreciate has said this:

''I will fight all my live for your right to disagree with me''

This goes back to Voltaire, who wasn't a politician.

[JimmyDranox]

Yes it was Voltaire first, but when this is the motto of a politician, is quite unusual. And if even a politician can, maybe we can too.

[Ishpuini]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated.

Taking notes while photographing is not always easy or even possible. My camera allows me to photograph in the rain, but I will never take my notebook and pen out of my backpack in some of the conditions my camera and lens *can* survive in. And sometimes there's just no time for taking notes because to many things are happening, and when taking notes later in the hotel room too many mistakes creep in (memory isn't what it used to be).
Of course it's much more practical to have the information embedded in the file, since that can allow for auto-tagging location information later on. Also when having the files in a catalog of many thousands, where collections are kept on subject (e.g. species in case of wildlife) rather than on a trip-by-trip basis, having to refer to a notebook to find out more about a picture is not practical (I have many dozens already, so which notebook?). If Location information is embedded I am only one click away from a satellite image in Google Maps. Even when I might remember which National Park I made the image in, I do not necessarily remember which part of the park.
One very practical thing about GPS, and rarely mentioned, is the ability to synch you camera's clock to the GPS signal. I *always* forget to adjust the clock of my camera when traveling from one time zone into the next, and as such often end up with completely unreal timestamps on my pictures. Again, for future reference it is very interesting to have correct time information in images. Esp to identify when to revisit places for instance.
For revisiting places you scout, embedded orientation information is very practical also. Even when the light is completely wrong, taking a test image will hold all you need to find out when would be a better time.
Just a few thoughts...

hth, Wim

[monochrome]

The K10D was for me
The K20D was for me but I passed
The K-7 was for me but I passed
The K-5 was for me but I passed
The K-01 was for me
The K-30 wasn't for me
The Q was for me at closeout prices
The K-50 wasn't for me
The Q7 was for me
The K-5IIs was for me, but I bought lenses instead that time
The K-3 is for me and I have it
The K-S1 isn't for me
The K-S2 isn't for me
The K-3II is interesting but it isn't for me.
The K-FF will probably be for me - but I'll need to wait a while to find out

[Rondec]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated. On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot. For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

You can do a lot of things without automation. My film cameras don't record an exif or anything to remind of what lens, aperture, etc were used. And you know what? I have no idea what I used even though I could pull out a notebook and document it.

As to which is most useful, I have no idea. I don't currently use a pop up flash or the astro tracer, but if the astro tracer was offered for free, I would probably take it over the pop up flash.

I do think this subject has been beaten to death. There was poll, where I believe 80 percent of folks indicated that they would deal with the absence of the pop up flash and only 20 percent said they wouldn't consider a K3 II because of its absence (I don't remember the exact numbers). If you don't need an astro tracer and you like a pop flash, than a k3 is perfect for you. It is even cheaper than a K3 II, right now.

[Matthew Saville]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated. On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot. For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

You're very right, on one matter: An AA battery powered GPS logger is a much more efficient way to add GPS data to your images, ...after the fact, in post-produciton. Using your in-camera GPS constantly is going to consume much more battery power, while AA batteries are easy to bulk up on before or during any trip.

Personally, I use my cell phone and an app called Backcountry Navigator to GPS log my travels, and all you have to do is create a GPX file afterwards and there are programs that will add the correct GPS data to your images. As long as your GPS logger is NEAR your camera, that is. If I let my camera run all night for a timelapse, and it's 1/4 mile away from where my tent is, then obviously I'd be turning off my GPS for the duration, whether it be in-camera or external.

As others have pointed out, the main reason that having GPS built-in on the K-3 II is of course the astro-tracking. This is something that no GPS logger can offer to your camera, and not having to add an external GPS module to your camera hotshoe is definitely worth the loss of a pop-up flash for 99% of adventure photographers who care about either astro-landscapes, or GPS logging in general.

It is unfortunate that the pop-up flash has been removed, and with it the ability to quickly trigger remote flashes too, but considering the features the K-3 II adds over the K-3, (and considering the extreme similarity to the K-3 as well) ...I'd say that both cameras will coexist in the market very well, and the K-3 II will be a dream camera for adventure, landscape, and astro-landscape photographers while the original K-3 will continue to make a great all-around camera.

[D1N0]

oh come on... get over it already

[Quicksand]

I'm sorry, but who is supposed to get over what now?

I pre-ordered a K-3 II and I'm excited to get it. What I can't get over is THE WAIT FOR DELIVERY.

[Canada_Rockies]

You can do a lot of things without automation. My film cameras don't record an exif or anything to remind of what lens, aperture, etc were used. And you know what? I have no idea what I used even though I could pull out a notebook and document it.

As to which is most useful, I have no idea. I don't currently use a pop up flash or the astro tracer, but if the astro tracer was offered for free, I would probably take it over the pop up flash.

I do think this subject has been beaten to death. There was poll, where I believe 80 percent of folks indicated that they would deal with the absence of the pop up flash and only 20 percent said they wouldn't consider a K3 II because of its absence (I don't remember the exact numbers). If you don't need an astro tracer and you like a pop flash, than a k3 is perfect for you. It is even cheaper than a K3 II, right now.

You need to use an MZ-S for film. The basic exposure information is logged between the sprocket holes. I found it very handy.