[monochrome]

As others have pointed out, the main reason that having GPS built-in on the K-3 II is of course the astro-tracking. This is something that no GPS logger can offer to your camera, and not having to add an external GPS module to your camera hotshoe is definitely worth the loss of a pop-up flash for 99% of adventure photographers who care about either astro-landscapes, or GPS logging in general.

Pentax concurrently released the AF201G, a very small, light external flash which it appears would serve in place of the OBF for a point-light source; so the switch is which class of user must carry a small external accessory - flash users or GPS users. It is simply an exchange of utility, not a reduction of utility.

Unfortunately the AF201G does not offer P-TTL Slave control functions to control remote flash (it would need to be an AF201FGZ), an omission which irks a smaller class of posters.

I suppose the question boils down to whether the number of those who use OBF for remote slave flash control is larger than the number of those who will use on-board GPS and Compass for position and direction logging + those who will use AstroTracking.

And that of course begs the question whether this camera is a one-off or whether Ricoh intends to make this change permanent for flagship cameras.

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Last edited by monochrome; 05-20-2015 at 11:13 AM.

[Nicolas06]

Pentax concurrently released the AF201G, a very small, light external flash which it appears would serve in place of the OBF for a point-light source; so the switch is which class of user must carry a small external accessory - flash users or GPS users. It is simply an exchange of utility, not a reduction of utility.

Unfortunately the AF201G does not offer P-TTL Slave control functions to control remote flash (it would need to be an AF201FGZ), an omission which irks a smaller class of posters.

I suppose the question boils down to whether the number of those who use OBF for remote slave flash control is larger than the number of those who will use on-board GPS and Compass for position and direction logging + those who will use AstroTracking.

And that of course begs the question whether this camera is a one-off or whether Ricoh intends to make this change permanent for flagship cameras.

The idea of small flash is interresting but this one is quite expensive for what it offer.. It doesn't tilt horizontally or support high speed sync. Metz provide the same for half the price.

Why couldn't we have a small even expensive but uncripled flash?

[monochrome]

The idea of small flash is interresting but this one is quite expensive for what it offer.. It doesn't tilt horizontally or support high speed sync. Metz provide the same for half the price.

Why couldn't we have a small even expensive but uncripled flash?

Man. You ALWAYS have a complaint.

The Metz 24 AF-1 is $90 and apparently has 0~90 degree tilt versus -10~90 for Pentax tilt. Product description says it is a novice flash. Otherwise their descriptions are virtually identical

The Pentax is $147 - more expensive, but not twice as much.

How much horizontal and vertical tilt do the OBF units have? If you are in a situation that calls for HSS, use your AF360 or 540. If you just need a once-in-a-while backup point light source and there's a GPS unit in your prism hump, carry an AF201FG instead of an O-GPS1.

If neither applies to you buy a K-3. It's less expensive.

[Rondec]

You need to use an MZ-S for film. The basic exposure information is logged between the sprocket holes. I found it very handy.

I suppose. I wasn't willing to spend that much on a film camera. They seem to go in the 300 dollar range.

[jatrax]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated.

Not sure what an "Adventure photog" is or why they have anything to do with GPS. You are missing the whole point of on board GPS I think. It embeds the location information for you automatically. If you always shoot in a studio, then no, this is not useful to you. It is however, massively useful to many people for many different reasons. And has nothing to do with "adventure" or being in the "wild".

Some examples:
1) I shoot for stock and I travel all over. If I shoot a building or river, or lake or bridge or whatever I may or may not write down where I was or what it was I just shot. On the other hand I may have no idea what that bridge is or where I am at. But if the GPS coordinates are embedded it is a simple matter to click on the map tab in Lightroom, zoom in and get all the information I need.

2) If you find a cool location, maybe wild maybe just along the road you can snap a quick shot and the coordinates are embedded along with the picture of what you want to shoot. Easy as pie to load that into your GPS so you can navigate there in the dark to get a sunrise picture.

3) If you are on vacation, a cruise perhaps, you have hundreds or thousands of pictures at the end of the trip. You are on vacation, did you stop to keep meticulous notes about each shot? I doubt it. But again, click on the map tab and there you go it shows you exactly where you were when you shot the image.

4) Images I shoot require a lot of keywords, locations being one of them. It is a massive time saver to be able to get the exact town, county, state info from the GPS coordinates.

I would suggest that the on board GPS has nothing whatsoever to do with "adventure" or "wild". Anyone going into the outback will have a map/compass/GPS and be proficient in their use and not need a GPS in the camera to get where they want to go. But having the images tagged automatically is a huge plus for many people that need that info embedded for various reasons.

I get some people are upset about not having an on board flash. Sorry about that. But I am delighted to have a built in GPS, and I think if people would get past the "no flash" and see the benefits of GPS they would realize what a fantastic feature this really is.

[reh321]

I still don't get how adventure photogs,(probably a very small percent of the market) use, and feel it is so important to have GPS "in camera" if you are going into the wild why not use a good Garmin and take notes. I'm totally missing the point, an explanation would be appreciated. On the other hand although it's a given that the on camera flash is very harsh there are ways of fixing that and I would think the vast majority of users would use the flash more often than geotagging just by the fact of sheer numbers. I use mine sparingly in a pinch, I just put a piece of tissue over it and the harsh light is softened a lot. For me I'll wait for the FF and hope that it has tilt and enough mpxs to do the job in crop mode or I'll wait until the true upgrade from the K3 comes through. I only have the K5 but when I go to the "Elite photos" and see what those people (like Dr. Orloff) can do with the K5 I think I can afford to wait. So for me no tiltee no buyee.

This thread was inactive for over half-a-week, and then you just had to resume beating this dead horse. Why? You live in a beautiful part of the country. Go out and take some pictures! (most likely you'll need neither point-flash nor GPS)

[bxf]

I dare say that this entire OBF vs GPS debate would probably not have taken place had the camera been named something like KG instead of K3-II. Had that been the case, it would have been viewed as a new model with some specific functions, rather than a presumed upgrade with a missing feature.

[rawr]

it would have been viewed as a new model with some specific functions, rather than a presumed upgrade with a missing feature.

Good point. Similar to what Canon and Nikon have done with special 'Astronomers' editions of some cameras (D810A, Canon 60da), even specialised camera releases like the Canon EOS-1DC.

[Nicolas06]

Man. You ALWAYS have a complaint.

The Metz 24 AF-1 is $90 and apparently has 0~90 degree tilt versus -10~90 for Pentax tilt. Product description says it is a novice flash. Otherwise their descriptions are virtually identical

The Pentax is $147 - more expensive, but not twice as much.

How much horizontal and vertical tilt do the OBF units have? If you are in a situation that calls for HSS, use your AF360 or 540. If you just need a once-in-a-while backup point light source and there's a GPS unit in your prism hump, carry an AF201FG instead of an O-GPS1.

If neither applies to you buy a K-3. It's less expensive.

You may ask yourself why?

Think of it you say, buy another (small) flash on top of your normal heavy/advanced flash... So each time you take the camera you brough one or the other... And of course the small flash is useless by itself compared to the big. it can't really replace it neither can it be part of a decent multi flash system. Now even for basic lighting (with 1 flash) you need to buy 2 !

Some explain to us this is the future and so we should have a big smile and say "wow it looks soooooooo good !!!!" ?

[D1N0]

You may ask yourself why?

Think of it you say, buy another (small) flash on top of your normal heavy/advanced flash... So each time you take the camera you brough one or the other... And of course the small flash is useless by itself compared to the big. it can't really replace it neither can it be part of a decent multi flash system. Now even for basic lighting (with 1 flash) you need to buy 2 !

Some explain to us this is the future and so we should have a big smile and say "wow it looks soooooooo good !!!!" ?

No you should endlessly whine about it annoying the hell out of people, because it is a heinous crime against camera hood. How dare Ricoh. Sue them!

[kenspo]

Do you still argue about this thing? haha Let it go. I won't be changed anyway!

[Rondec]

You may ask yourself why?

Think of it you say, buy another (small) flash on top of your normal heavy/advanced flash... So each time you take the camera you brough one or the other... And of course the small flash is useless by itself compared to the big. it can't really replace it neither can it be part of a decent multi flash system. Now even for basic lighting (with 1 flash) you need to buy 2 !

Some explain to us this is the future and so we should have a big smile and say "wow it looks soooooooo good !!!!" ?

I'm sorry, Nicolas, but the arguments both ways are getting tired.

If people need a pop up flash, they should get: a K30, K50, K5, K5II, K5 IIs, K-S1, K-S2 or K3 (either used or new).

If people don't care about the pop up flash and want a free GPS unit with astrotracer features they should get: a K3 II.

It is really that simple.

[totsmuyco]

You like the k-3II then get one. If you don't for any reason, then don't. The way I see it, when I have the cash, I'll get one.

[Outis]

Any update on when the K-3 II will ship? I'd really like to have one before I go on vacation in about a week. But I don't want to pre-order one lest it arrive while I'm out of town and just sit on the porch...

[Quicksand]

B&H now says May 28 on the product page, but as of a few days ago it said May 21.

I preordered from Adorama and they haven't said anything about a specific date. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯