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06-25-2015, 11:46 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed, they might continue to use screw-drive AF for their most compact lenses. Or they might decide that DC-equipped lenses are compact enough... see the collapsible 18-50.
Other brands compact lenses have micro-motors.

06-25-2015, 12:27 PM   #77
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Not that it matters, but I have two concerns. First, micro motors don't seem to have the same speed as screw drive. Second, they certainly won't have the same life span. I don't care to trade a little noise for a tiny lens, like the DA 40 that auto focuses really fast and will last for a really long time (with reasonable care), without requiring service.
06-25-2015, 03:43 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Other brands compact lenses have micro-motors.
And Pentax's are smaller, with more variety.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870179-
REG/Canon_40mm_f_2_8_EF_Pancake.html

Pentax SMCP-DA 40mm f/2.8 Limited Series Autofocus Lens 21550

Nikon still keeps its screwdriver 20-35mm set of screw drive glassin production which are still not as small as anything Pentax has in a modern formula with HD-equivalent coatings, and they advertise them as being "small" and "light weight".

The Pentax DA Ltds are very small, modernized AF lenses designed for APS-C sensors using a compact internal screw drive motor. It's a feature, not a bug.
06-25-2015, 03:52 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's a feature, not a bug.
How long ago did you work at Microsoft?

06-25-2015, 08:17 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
And Pentax's are smaller, with more variety.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/870179-
REG/Canon_40mm_f_2_8_EF_Pancake.html

Pentax SMCP-DA 40mm f/2.8 Limited Series Autofocus Lens 21550

Nikon still keeps its screwdriver 20-35mm set of screw drive glassin production which are still not as small as anything Pentax has in a modern formula with HD-equivalent coatings, and they advertise them as being "small" and "light weight".

The Pentax DA Ltds are very small, modernized AF lenses designed for APS-C sensors using a compact internal screw drive motor. It's a feature, not a bug.
Only 40 lim is visually much smaller. 63 x 15 mm

40/2.8 Canon
68.2 x 22.8 mm


Canon 24/2.8
68.2x22.8 мм

Pentax 21/3.2
63 x 25 mm

Pentax 15/4
63 x 40 mm


Fujinon 27/2.8
61.2x23mm

Fujinon 18/2
64.5 x 40.6 mm

M.ZUIKO 17mm f/1.8
57.5 x 35.5 mm

Lumix G 14mm f/2.5
55.5 x 20.5 mm

Leica DG Sumilux 15/1.7
57.5 x 36 mm

Lumix G 20mm f/1.7
63 x 25.5 mm

M.Zuiko 17mm f/2.8
57 x 22 mm

Last edited by ogl; 06-25-2015 at 08:44 PM.
06-26-2015, 03:17 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Only 40 lim is visually much smaller. 63 x 15 mm

40/2.8 Canon
68.2 x 22.8 mm


Canon 24/2.8
68.2x22.8 мм

Pentax 21/3.2
63 x 25 mm

Pentax 15/4
63 x 40 mm


Fujinon 27/2.8
61.2x23mm

Fujinon 18/2
64.5 x 40.6 mm

M.ZUIKO 17mm f/1.8
57.5 x 35.5 mm

Lumix G 14mm f/2.5
55.5 x 20.5 mm

Leica DG Sumilux 15/1.7
57.5 x 36 mm

Lumix G 20mm f/1.7
63 x 25.5 mm

M.Zuiko 17mm f/2.8
57 x 22 mm
If you want smaller lenses in the 15-20mm range, then you need a new lens mount. For whatever reason, lenses can be designed the smallest when they are close to the registration distance. For mirrorless options, this often means that they have small lenses in the 15-20mm range. It has very little to do with presence or absence of the motor in the lens.
06-26-2015, 05:36 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If you want smaller lenses in the 15-20mm range, then you need a new lens mount. For whatever reason, lenses can be designed the smallest when they are close to the registration distance. For mirrorless options, this often means that they have small lenses in the 15-20mm range. It has very little to do with presence or absence of the motor in the lens.
Yes, look how small the Q-mount lenses are, and they all have in-lens motors.
06-26-2015, 06:04 AM   #83
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Ya, look at my Optio 90W. The lens doesn't even protrude from the camera. I'm not sure if you guys are confusing shorter registration distance with smaller sensor size, because smaller sensor size definitely lets you make smaller lenses.

06-26-2015, 06:07 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Ya, look at my Optio 90W. The lens doesn't even protrude from the camera. I'm not sure if you guys are confusing shorter registration distance with smaller sensor size, because smaller sensor size definitely lets you make smaller lenses.
Those are both factors. There is a reason why the 40mm 2.8 is the shortest pentax lens and there is also a reason why q-lenses are smaller than k-mount lenses.
06-26-2015, 06:35 AM   #85
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So what mirrorless APS-c with a shorter registration distance than K-mount has a 20mm lens smaller than the 21 ltd?
06-26-2015, 07:22 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So what mirrorless APS-c with a shorter registration distance than K-mount has a 20mm lens smaller than the 21 ltd?
What mirrorless camera has lenses as slow as the DA limiteds available for it?

Obviously if you have a max aperture of f3.2 or f4, you are going to have a smaller lens compared to an f2 lens, everything else being equal. The DA 70 is the lens I think is most amazing from a speed/aperture standpoint. Certainly Fuji has pretty small primes that are quite fast.
06-26-2015, 07:29 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
What mirrorless camera has lenses as slow as the DA limiteds available for it?

Obviously if you have a max aperture of f3.2 or f4, you are going to have a smaller lens compared to an f2 lens, everything else being equal. The DA 70 is the lens I think is most amazing from a speed/aperture standpoint. Certainly Fuji has pretty small primes that are quite fast.
Hey just asking... if People are going to say
QuoteQuote:
If you want smaller lenses in the 15-20mm range, then you need a new lens mount. For whatever reason, lenses can be designed the smallest when they are close to the registration distance. For mirrorless options, this often means that they have small lenses in the 15-20mm range. It has very little to do with presence or absence of the motor in the lens
.

Give me an example. See I care about smaller lenses, and I don't care about ƒ2, so that particularly argument is completely lost on me.

And I'm practical... I don't give a crap about the theory.. I want to talk about something real. Saying well "They could be smaller but they make the f2 so they aren't", what use is that?

I'm always looking for real world options. The topic was "smaller."

Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 07:34 AM.
06-26-2015, 07:35 AM   #88
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Bokeh!
06-26-2015, 08:17 AM   #89
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21 mm bokeh? Really?

If I want great bokeh, I shoot 70mm ƒ2.8, which is way better than 21 ƒ2.
06-26-2015, 09:25 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
21 mm bokeh? Really?

If I want great bokeh, I shoot 70mm ƒ2.8, which is way better than 21 ƒ2.
I imagine if you want to exaggerate perspective and make things look huge and distorted with a thin depth of field, 21mm f2 might be very useful. It all depends on what story you want to tell with your photograph. If the only story you want to tell is to demonstrate beautiful bokeh, your 70mm will be fine.

Personally I have little use for Bokeh at a field of view that great, I'd rather show distance with a smaller aperture, but I see what others would want a bigger aperture for.
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