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06-26-2015, 09:30 AM   #91
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Wide angle bokeh gets much more of the background in the image, which can be nice. Also when you are a natural (low) light shooter the extra stop helps a lot with keeping shutter time up and iso down.

06-26-2015, 09:53 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Wide angle bokeh gets much more of the background in the image, which can be nice. Also when you are a natural (low) light shooter the extra stop helps a lot with keeping shutter time up and iso down.
There's always reasons for everything, but that doesn't mean they appeal to many. The ƒ1.2 lens thread is one of the least used in the forum, and it's not because the lenses are expensive. If you look at the number of shooters and posts in the 300 plus thread, there are probably as many posters using the DA 560 as there are posting with ƒ1.2 lenses, and then there are lots shooting with the Sigma 500 ƒ4.5. also a lens that runs over 5k. People are willing to pay for long lenses. For ƒ1.2 lenses, not so much, most of us if we want a fast lens think DA* 55 1.4. Most of us won't pay for even one really fast lens. But there are a few who are enamoured with the lenses to propose them at every opportunity.

It's always cool to recruit a new member to your club.

I bet you can browse through this entire thread without finding an ƒ1.2 image.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/93...bokeh-242.html

The ƒ1.2 lens club has been going since 2009 has 1660 that's 277 post a year. And Ihave to say, some of the bokeh in some of those posts is disturbing.
In terms of bokeh ƒ1.2 doesn't guarantee you anything.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/74819-post-your-1-2-photos-1-2-only-111.html

It reminds me of a fortune cooky I once got. "You have a small but enthusiastic number of very dedicated followers." I think that's the description of ƒ1.2 lenses.

Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 10:26 AM.
06-26-2015, 10:06 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There's always reasons for everything, but that doesn't mean they appeal to many. The 1.2 lens thread is one of the least used in the forum, and it's not because the lenses are expensive. If you look at the number of shooters and posts in the 300 plus thread, there are probably as many posters using the DA 560 as there are posting with 1.2 lenses, and then there are lots shooting with the Sigma 500 4.5. also a lens that runs over 5k. People are willing to pay for long lenses. For 1.2 lenses, not so much, most of us if we want a fast lens think DA* 55 1.4. Most of us won't pay for even one really fast lens. But there are a few who are enamoured with the lenses to propose them at every opportunity.

It's always cool to recruit a new member to your club.
Sigma makes a 24 and 35mm 1.4 for a reason. They do sell.
06-26-2015, 10:22 AM   #94
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Yes, ƒ 1.4 lenses sell, but very few feel the need to extend that to ƒ1.2.

06-26-2015, 10:45 AM   #95
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Because there are very few 1.2 lenses for Pentax The Pentax 50mm a K and a A. Then there is some third party Revuenon and Porst. There is a new Mitakon 85mm 1.2 that will come out for K-mount. But that's very recent. Anyway I didn't say anything about it needing to be 1.2 Just bright and bokehlicious. 1.2 was not the point, the need for short DOF and light was.
06-26-2015, 10:53 AM   #96
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QuoteQuote:
Because there are very few 1.2 lenses for Pentax
Because so few people buy them.
06-26-2015, 10:57 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
There's always reasons for everything, but that doesn't mean they appeal to many. The 1.2 lens thread is one of the least used in the forum, and it's not because the lenses are expensive. If you look at the number of shooters and posts in the 300 plus thread, there are probably as many posters using the DA 560 as there are posting with 1.2 lenses, and then there are lots shooting with the Sigma 500 4.5. also a lens that runs over 5k. People are willing to pay for long lenses. For 1.2 lenses, not so much, most of us if we want a fast lens think DA* 55 1.4. Most of us won't pay for even one really fast lens. But there are a few who are enamoured with the lenses to propose them at every opportunity.

It's always cool to recruit a new member to your club.

I bet you can browse through this entire thread without finding an 1.2 image.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/26-mini-challenges-games-photo-stories/93...bokeh-242.html

The 1.2 lens club has been going since 2009 has 1660 that's 277 post a year. And Ihave to say, some of the bokeh in some of those posts is disturbing.
In terms of bokeh 1.2 doesn't guarantee you anything.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/122-lens-clubs/74819-post-your-1-2-photos-1-2-only-111.html

It reminds me of a fortune cooky I once got. "You have a small but enthusiastic number of very dedicated followers." I think that's the description of 1.2 lenses.
I guess I would say that the two reasons for fast lenses are shooting in low light or desire for narrow depth of field. Granted, these aren't every day situations, but it can come in handy.

This is an FA 31 shot at f2 and is 1600, 1/80 second. If I had a f3.5 or f4 lens, it would have been tough to grab this shot.

06-26-2015, 11:05 AM - 1 Like   #98
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NO one is saying you don't need a few fast lenses... but in the above case, would the 35 2.4 have done the same job? Pentax lenses tend to be smaller and slower. Pentax is the lightweight compact lens company. They make fast lenses where they can without affecting size too much... 31 to 77mm. They are not the big heavy fast wide lens company, or the big heavy fast long lens company either. They are the nice compact fast lens in focal lengths close to the registration distance company.

DA 18-135 bokeh... 5.6 lens at this focal length.... you don't know what you can get until you try. (Just to get back to the topic of this thread.)









Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 11:10 AM.
06-26-2015, 11:18 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Because so few people buy them.
You can't buy what isn't made
06-26-2015, 11:25 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You can't buy what isn't made
SMC Pentax-A 50mm F1.2 Reviews - A Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database

And yes you can buy them..
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Cosina-MC-55mm-F1-2-Lens-Kenko-Filter-For-Pentax-K-/1...item2c9bb92548
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/27717-Pentax-SMC-Pentax-A-50mm-f-1-2-for-K-Mount-from...item235391322c
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/27717-Pentax-SMC-Pentax-A-50mm-f-1-2-for-K-Mount-from...item235391322c

It's not like people are snapping them up so quick the used market can't keep up with the demand.

If people had bought more of them, they'd still be making one.

Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 11:30 AM.
06-26-2015, 11:40 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
NO one is saying you don't need a few fast lenses... but in the above case, would the 35 2.4 have done the same job? Pentax lenses tend to be smaller and slower. Pentax is the lightweight compact lens company. They make fast lenses where they can without affecting size too much... 31 to 77mm. They are not the big heavy fast wide lens company, or the big heavy fast long lens company either. They are the nice compact fast lens in focal lengths close to the registration distance company.

DA 18-135 bokeh... 5.6 lens at this focal length.... you don't know what you can get until you try. (Just to get back to the topic of this thread.)





I know you're a big 18-135 proponent, Norm, but these aren't necessarily the best photos to show case its sharpness.

As to whether or not you need a fast lens, it obviously depends on what you are shooting. It is just that you had indicated that you didn't really know why you would need a fast lens and I think the situations are pretty obvious.

All of this is sort of convoluted, but I think the thing that stands out to me is that there are a mixture of features that play into size of lens -- size of mount, registration distance, focal length, maximum aperture, and generally how corrected a lens is. Of these things, presence of in lens motor is probably one of the smallest factors -- obviously it does add some size, but not a huge amount.
06-26-2015, 11:51 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I know you're a big 18-135 proponent, Norm, but these aren't necessarily the best photos to show case its sharpness.

As to whether or not you need a fast lens, it obviously depends on what you are shooting. It is just that you had indicated that you didn't really know why you would need a fast lens and I think the situations are pretty obvious.

All of this is sort of convoluted, but I think the thing that stands out to me is that there are a mixture of features that play into size of lens -- size of mount, registration distance, focal length, maximum aperture, and generally how corrected a lens is. Of these things, presence of in lens motor is probably one of the smallest factors -- obviously it does add some size, but not a huge amount.
No the question was not whether I needed a fast lens, it was whether or not I need an ƒ1.2 lens. As for criticizing the sharpness of the images posted, let's just not go there. you can argue that kind of nonsense all day. You want to see some terribly unsharp images with really bad bokeh, go through the ƒ1.2 lens club and get back to me.

What I said was
QuoteQuote:
most of us if we want a fast lens think DA* 55 1.4.
, that was my comment...did you read it? Or did you just jump in cold?

Just for the record, so why you're posting an ƒ2 image in a discussion of the need for ƒ1.2 lenses is beyond me.

I don't even think of ƒ1.8 as a fast lens, I think of it as a common lens. Because it's what used to come on every SLR camera made.

Now what does any of this have to do with the DA 18-135 mistakenly being posted as discontinued?

Let the thread die.

I swear, most threads go from off topic to stupid, to stupider to stupidest.

And don't bother telling me what I might need fast lenses for, I know you what a fast lens is for. Did you really think I didn't? Like that you had to show me?
Oh wait, I shouldn't have posted that , it's not sharp enough.

Taken in the darkened bat and owl room at Birdland in Niagara falls...


Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 12:09 PM.
06-26-2015, 12:27 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I am not saying you can't buy legacy glass, I am saying you can't buy a modern 50 F1.2 in fact not even a autofocus one was ever made for Pentax, let alone one in the digital age. So how do you know people won't buy them? Because they didn't buy enough in the eighties? 30 years ago?
06-26-2015, 12:30 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
I am not saying you can't buy legacy glass, I am saying you can't buy a modern 50 F1.2 in fact not even a autofocus one was ever made for Pentax, let alone one in the digital age. So how do you know people won't buy them? Because they didn't buy enough in the eighties? 30 years ago?
And how do you know they will?

There is no current Pentax 400mm prime, so I use an A-400, if I wanted ƒ1.2 I'd buy an A 50 ƒ1.2. If I'm like that it's pretty safe bet that there are others like me.

But even then, the fact that I have an A-400 doesn't necessarily mean I'd buy a D FA-400, I'm sure there are a lot of folks comfortable with the $500 price of an A-400 who wouldn't go for the probably $2k plus cost of an D FA 400. From the look of the lenses available on the used market, I'd say ƒ1.2 is not a big deal to many people.

That's just my take... but its an untestable theory so it's useless even discussing it, except in terms of speculation. We aren't going toresolve this. I'll believe your vision that there's enough market out there to support a pent D FA 20 ƒ1.2 when I see it and probably not before.

Last edited by normhead; 06-26-2015 at 12:38 PM.
06-26-2015, 02:23 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
No the question was not whether I needed a fast lens, it was whether or not I need an 1.2 lens. As for criticizing the sharpness of the images posted, let's just not go there. you can argue that kind of nonsense all day. You want to see some terribly unsharp images with really bad bokeh, go through the 1.2 lens club and get back to me.

What I said was
, that was my comment...did you read it? Or did you just jump in cold?

Just for the record, so why you're posting an 2 image in a discussion of the need for 1.2 lenses is beyond me.

I don't even think of 1.8 as a fast lens, I think of it as a common lens. Because it's what used to come on every SLR camera made.

Now what does any of this have to do with the DA 18-135 mistakenly being posted as discontinued?

Let the thread die.

I swear, most threads go from off topic to stupid, to stupider to stupidest.

And don't bother telling me what I might need fast lenses for, I know you what a fast lens is for. Did you really think I didn't? Like that you had to show me?
Oh wait, I shouldn't have posted that , it's not sharp enough.

Taken in the darkened bat and owl room at Birdland in Niagara falls...
Settle down Norm. I have no idea why threads take rabbit trails.

I guess it is stupid that I think of f1.8 lenses as fast, but in Pentax land, they are about as fast as you can go, except for the FA 50 f1.4 and DA *55 f1.4. I guess in my mind anything faster than f2.8 for a primes is fast and anything faster than f4 for a zoom is fast. I suppose your definition is different.

But don't be so cantankerous. I think you're a smart guy and a good photographer.
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